Author Topic: What is 'science'  (Read 53206 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #360 on: November 26, 2018, 06:38:27 PM »
If we dont need to know why have you introduced it...

I didn't say you didn'r need to know.
My question was if you read it properly was "Why do you need to know how to find it".
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #361 on: November 26, 2018, 06:44:28 PM »
I didn't say you didn'r need to know.
My question was if you read it properly was "Why do you need to know how to find it".
It seems that the introduction to the conversation of the elusive Z gene has been done with the sole intention of making us plebs look like uneducated morons.  Am I right or am I right?   @)(++(*
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #362 on: November 26, 2018, 06:55:20 PM »
It seems that the introduction to the conversation of the elusive Z gene has been done with the sole intention of making us plebs look like uneducated morons.  Am I right or am I right?   @)(++(*

You're not wrong.... And it's failed miserably

Offline G-Unit

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #363 on: November 26, 2018, 07:37:21 PM »
Japanese men have lower rates of lung cancer than Western men, but they smoke just as heavily. No-one really knows why, but in my opinion the fact that Japanese cities are among the world's least polluted could be relevant.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #364 on: November 26, 2018, 07:41:47 PM »
Japanese men have lower rates of lung cancer than Western men, but they smoke just as heavily. No-one really knows why, but in my opinion the fact that Japanese cities are among the world's least polluted could be relevant.

Do you have cite fir lung cancer in Japanese... And the level of smoking

Offline G-Unit

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #365 on: November 26, 2018, 08:00:30 PM »
Do you have cite fir lung cancer in Japanese... And the level of smoking

https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-japanese-lung-cancer-smoking-paradox-2248990

Today, Japanese cities are among the world’s least polluted, according to the World Health Organization.
https://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/japans-pollution-diet/
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #366 on: November 26, 2018, 08:07:51 PM »
https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-japanese-lung-cancer-smoking-paradox-2248990

Today, Japanese cities are among the world’s least polluted, according to the World Health Organization.
https://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/japans-pollution-diet/
Your first cite explains the likely explanations, strangely dropping pollution levels is not one of them.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Mr Gray

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #367 on: November 26, 2018, 08:09:50 PM »
https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-japanese-lung-cancer-smoking-paradox-2248990

Today, Japanese cities are among the world’s least polluted, according to the World Health Organization.
https://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/15/japans-pollution-diet/

I ask you for a cite because  I'm interested... It seems there are lots if factors that may contribute  to the difference.... Not just your less pollution... If indeed there is..
Different filters.. Diet... Later on-set of smoking seem to be what is considered to be of importance

Offline G-Unit

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #368 on: November 26, 2018, 09:01:19 PM »
I ask you for a cite because  I'm interested... It seems there are lots if factors that may contribute  to the difference.... Not just your less pollution... If indeed there is..
Different filters.. Diet... Later on-set of smoking seem to be what is considered to be of importance

For me, air pollution is the elephant in the room that everyone seems to be trying to ignore. I can;t help but notice that both business and individuals would be against clean air legislation.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #369 on: November 26, 2018, 09:29:58 PM »
For me, air pollution is the elephant in the room that everyone seems to be trying to ignore. I can;t help but notice that both business and individuals would be against clean air legislation.
Emissions in the UK have dropped markedly in the last 50 years so why do you conclude that everyone is against clean air legislation?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/681445/Emissions_of_air_pollutants_statistical_release_FINALv4.pdf
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #370 on: November 26, 2018, 10:39:47 PM »
Emissions in the UK have dropped markedly in the last 50 years so why do you conclude that everyone is against clean air legislation?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/681445/Emissions_of_air_pollutants_statistical_release_FINALv4.pdf

So there is an association between lower rates of lung cancer and smoking. There's also an association between lower emissions and lower rates of lung cancer. I don't see how one association can be called a 'cause; and the other not.

There is action on clean air, but it's not been as forceful or as fast as the action against smoking imo. Japan has been much earlier and more forcefully on clean air but smoking rates are still high. Their rates of lung cancer have nevertheless been reduced.

Consumers have got the message about diesel emissions, but not everyone has. There are no diesel cars in Japan.

Car Lobby Should Listen To Clear Message Behind Falling Diesel Sales
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diesel-uk_uk_5a4fb711e4b089e14dba9819
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #371 on: November 26, 2018, 11:01:04 PM »
So there is an association between lower rates of lung cancer and smoking. There's also an association between lower emissions and lower rates of lung cancer. I don't see how one association can be called a 'cause; and the other not.

There is action on clean air, but it's not been as forceful or as fast as the action against smoking imo. Japan has been much earlier and more forcefully on clean air but smoking rates are still high. Their rates of lung cancer have nevertheless been reduced.

Consumers have got the message about diesel emissions, but not everyone has. There are no diesel cars in Japan.

Car Lobby Should Listen To Clear Message Behind Falling Diesel Sales
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diesel-uk_uk_5a4fb711e4b089e14dba9819
Smoking rates in Japan have declined considerably in the last 20 years.


Smoking in Japan, though historically less restricted by law than in many other nations, has significantly changed in recent years. Tobacco use has been in nearly constant decline since 1996 and the decline has been mainly accelerating in recent years.[1] Per capita consumption in 2015 was 1,618 cigarettes, roughly 46% of the peak figure in 1977 and a number last seen in 1956.[2] In 2015, the adult smoking rate was 19.3%, 29.7% of Japanese men and 9.7% of Japanese women.[3] This is the lowest recorded figure since Japan Tobacco began surveying in 1965. As of July 2016, just over 20 million people smoked in Japan, though the nation remained one of the world's largest tobacco markets.[4]

i’m really not sure why you are using pollution as a defence for smoking.  I’m not aware of any study anywhere that says smoking is the sole cause of cancer or that breathing in pollution over a long period is not extremely harmful to health.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #372 on: November 27, 2018, 07:53:41 AM »
Smoking rates in Japan have declined considerably in the last 20 years.


Smoking in Japan, though historically less restricted by law than in many other nations, has significantly changed in recent years. Tobacco use has been in nearly constant decline since 1996 and the decline has been mainly accelerating in recent years.[1] Per capita consumption in 2015 was 1,618 cigarettes, roughly 46% of the peak figure in 1977 and a number last seen in 1956.[2] In 2015, the adult smoking rate was 19.3%, 29.7% of Japanese men and 9.7% of Japanese women.[3] This is the lowest recorded figure since Japan Tobacco began surveying in 1965. As of July 2016, just over 20 million people smoked in Japan, though the nation remained one of the world's largest tobacco markets.[4]

i’m really not sure why you are using pollution as a defence for smoking.  I’m not aware of any study anywhere that says smoking is the sole cause of cancer or that breathing in pollution over a long period is not extremely harmful to health.

Several points. Smoking isn't, as you seem to be now acknowledging, the only thing associated with lung cancer. As an adult I'm quite capable of deciding whether I should smoke or not, just as people decide whether to drink too much or overeat.

As far as I can see, smokers are the only group to have been singled out and bullied. GP's are paid to report how many of their patients smoke, so every time I visit them I'm questioned, regardless of why I'm there. Children bully their parents to stop. Passing strangers think they're entitled to glare at a smoker. Some even comment. I find all that unacceptable when I'm not breaking any laws. Not only that, but the 'science' on which it's all based isn't able to prove that smoking causes lung cancer. Even if it could, the decision is still mine.

Japan's smoking rates have only recently fallen. Their lung cancer rates have been falling in line with their measures to clean up their air, which began much earlier than other countries.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #373 on: November 27, 2018, 07:58:50 AM »
Several points. Smoking isn't, as you seem to be now acknowledging, the only thing associated with lung cancer. As an adult I'm quite capable of deciding whether I should smoke or not, just as people decide whether to drink too much or overeat.

As far as I can see, smokers are the only group to have been singled out and bullied. GP's are paid to report how many of their patients smoke, so every time I visit them I'm questioned, regardless of why I'm there. Children bully their parents to stop. Passing strangers think they're entitled to glare at a smoker. Some even comment. I find all that unacceptable when I'm not breaking any laws. Not only that, but the 'science' on which it's all based isn't able to prove that smoking causes lung cancer. Even if it could, the decision is still mine.

Japan's smoking rates have only recently fallen. Their lung cancer rates have been falling in line with their measures to clean up their air, which began much earlier than other countries.

The evidence that smoking causes cancer is overwhelming... You are, entitled to ignore it but imo it cannot be denied. Smoking around children is a form of child abuse according to experts


« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 11:17:01 AM by John »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: What is 'science'
« Reply #374 on: November 27, 2018, 08:08:35 AM »
Several points. Smoking isn't, as you seem to be now acknowledging, the only thing associated with lung cancer. As an adult I'm quite capable of deciding whether I should smoke or not, just as people decide whether to drink too much or overeat.

As far as I can see, smokers are the only group to have been singled out and bullied. GP's are paid to report how many of their patients smoke, so every time I visit them I'm questioned, regardless of why I'm there. Children bully their parents to stop. Passing strangers think they're entitled to glare at a smoker. Some even comment. I find all that unacceptable when I'm not breaking any laws. Not only that, but the 'science' on which it's all based isn't able to prove that smoking causes lung cancer. Even if it could, the decision is still mine.

Japan's smoking rates have only recently fallen. Their lung cancer rates have been falling in line with their measures to clean up their air, which began much earlier than other countries.
Kindly point to any post I have made during this discussion where I have claimed smoking is the ONLY cause of lung cancer.  Quite the reverse  - I have repeatedly said that it is not.  Please amend your post accordingly.  Carry on smoking, I fully approve of you doing so, just so long as it’s nowhere near me or any members of my family.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".