Jeremy Bamber - Lead Detective Sgt Stan Jones has his say

[Myster]

Sorry Outlook, I mistook your post for John's when I said that stair S2, not S3 was the one blocked by debris.

[Myster]

In order to have ended up straddling it if he was pushed over by the TFU, Nevill would have had to walk under his own steam and stride over the seat and arm rest of that overturned chair.... but he was already deceased.

Uwot m8??!!

I'm not getting you, Myster. I always presumed that Ralph died sitting in the chair, his body was knocked to the floor when police forced the door, and they picked him up and perched him, placing his head in the scuttle to collect the blood.

I need to watch The Big Bang. I'm sorry if I'm annoying you!

But if he died sitting in the chair, blood from his numerous head wounds would have run down onto the cushion he was sitting on, wouldn't it? And if he was already dead and his heart had stopped pumping.. remember it was several hours before the TFU broke in... there would have been little if any at all seeping from the head wounds, down the side of the scuttle and pooling on the floor.

[Outlook]

Sorry Outlook, I mistook your post for John's when I said that stair S2, not S3 was the one blocked by debris.

You are quite correct, stairway S2.   That is what I meant.  They look in dreadful condition.  I cannot see thim being in use.

[Myster]

Sorry Outlook, I mistook your post for John's when I said that stair S2, not S3 was the one blocked by debris.

You are quite correct, stairway S2.   That is what I meant.  They look in dreadful condition.  I cannot see thim being in use.

It's what we used to call the Glory Hole, a place to store all the junk... but today the term's been hijacked by the sexual innuendo brigade !

I read somewhere that one or two rifles were wrapped in old towels and stored on the steps.

[Outlook]

Where is it documented that they had to force that internal door open thus pushing Nevill over onto the floor?... the only reference that I've seen about the TFU being obstructed is when they had to batter down the external back door.

I don't know. I've read so much over the last couple of years....Do you think the police found Ralph in the position on the edge of the chair with his head already in the scuttle? There's no way that Sheila could have placed him like that, and he could only have balanced like that because his poor body was so stiff. Oh dear.   

I don't see the police propping him up balanced on the edge of a chair like that.. and there wasn't a copious amount of blood from his four head or two facial/jaw wounds on the floor in front of the kitchen sink, which there would have been had he been seated on the chair in front of the door, and then pushed over by the TFU to send him forward onto the floor.

The only large amount visible is running down the side of the scuttle and pooling on the floor beside it.

Either he ended up there through exhaustion, or Jeremy Bamber lifted him onto it, probably before he delivered the final four shots.

Don't you think that Ralph's body could only be in such a strange, precarious position, perched on the arm of the chair, because of advanced rigor mortis?

This has been debated strongly on "Blue."  My personal belief is that JB placed Mr Bamber there to block the back door.  Now the contrary "Blue view" is that "Gentle Jeremy" could not possibly have done such a thing.  Whereas Sheila in "Raging Demon Mode" could have thrown Mr Bamber there with a flick of her wrist.  Again a clear demonstration of her titanic strength before she had the ritual cleaning.

[Outlook]

Sorry Outlook, I mistook your post for John's when I said that stair S2, not S3 was the one blocked by debris.

You are quite correct, stairway S2.   That is what I meant.  They look in dreadful condition.  I cannot see thim being in use.

It's what we used to call the Glory Hole, a place to store all the junk... but today the term's been hijacked by the sexual innuendo brigade !

I read somewhere that one or two rifles were wrapped in old towels and stored on the steps.

The stairway looks just ghastly by modern standards with so much damp.  This indicates that it was not used much and it must have been very cold and damp even though next to the AGA but above the scullery and this was the middle of summer.

[Angelo222]

I'm trying to get my head round all of this.  Myster makes a good point about the spread of the blood and why there was so much around the coal scuttle and on the floor in front of the Aga.  Question is though, who put the cushion on the floor by the Aga to stop the blood spreading all over the floor?

[Myster]

This has been debated strongly on "Blue."  My personal belief is that JB placed Mr Bamber there to block the back door.  Now the contrary "Blue view" is that "Gentle Jeremy" could not possibly have done such a thing.  Whereas Sheila in "Raging Demon Mode" could have thrown Mr Bamber there with a flick of her wrist.  Again a clear demonstration of her titanic strength before she had the ritual cleaning.

But his final resting position is nowhere near the back door... it's in front of the red painted panelling next to the AGA. So the TFU would only have to push at a loose chair to get through the kitchen door, that is assuming it wasn't placed there by them after the raid was over.

Right, bedtime... I have to be up early

[Myster]

I'm trying to get my head round all of this.  Myster makes a good point about the spread of the blood and why there was so much around the coal scullte and on the floor in front of the Aga.  Question is though, who put the cushion on the floor by the Aga to stop the blood spreading all over the floor?

Could it have been Bamber himself to stop himself from stepping in it and transferring footprints all over the house if he returned upstairs to check on his handiwork?

[Angelo222]

I'm trying to get my head round all of this.  Myster makes a good point about the spread of the blood and why there was so much around the coal scullte and on the floor in front of the Aga.  Question is though, who put the cushion on the floor by the Aga to stop the blood spreading all over the floor?

Could it have been Bamber himself to stop himself from stepping in it and transferring footprints all over the house if he returned upstairs to check on his handiwork?

I don't see any other alternative.  The blood would have all mostly congealed by 7.30 am so the police wouldn't have needed to stop its spread.  Puzzling?? 

[Matthew Wyse]

I didn't notice this before but there is a second chair right in front of the door which leads to the hall and thence to the back door.

It is clear to me from this photograph that Nevill is in the position where he died at around 3am in the morning. He bled out from that position. Note the clean edges of the blood pools indicating that the scene has not been disturbed at all.

Could we see the black and white photos please as the silhouetting may have distorted the profile.

[John]

If you look carefully at the above image you will see that Nevill was actually supported by the basket shown in this later photo.

[puglove]

I didn't notice this before but there is a second chair right in front of the door which leads to the hall and thence to the back door.

It is clear to me from this photograph that Nevill is in the position where he died at around 3am in the morning. He bled out from that position. Note the clean edges of the blood pools indicating that the scene has not been disturbed at all.

Could we see the black and white photos please as the silhouetting may have distorted the profile.

If Ralph died in that position it would explain his arms, and also be yet more proof that Sheila is innocent. But I really don't think he did. The body wouldn't hold that strange position if it wasn't already stiff, imo. (And his arms could be straight because they were resting on the chair arms when he died.)

[Outlook]

One further thing that supports Shona is:  Has anyone looked at the device fitted to the AGA surround immediately above where Mr Bamber's head would be if he was sitting upright?  I will not prompt anyone but I have only ever seen one once before.  They are quite unusual.

See the general photo:  I am not going to post the "body" photo again as I cannot bear to do this.

It is the white and black cylindrical device.

[Angelo222]

One further thing that supports Shona is:  Has anyone looked at the device fitted to the AGA surround immediately above where Mr Bamber's head would be if he was sitting upright?  I will not prompt anyone but I have only ever seen one once before.  They are quite unusual.

See the general photo:  I am not going to post the "body" photo again as I cannot bear to do this.

It is the white and black cylindrical device.

It's a dry tea dispenser Outlook.  Made of plastic.  My mum used to have one at home too.