Author Topic: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.  (Read 243482 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1005 on: May 26, 2019, 05:18:54 PM »
With due respect Brietta, I don't know where you get the notion that the woke and wandered theory is a dead end because in reality it is very live and kicking. The fact that Jim Gamble has now had to acknowledge that it is a very real possibility is very telling imo.

The difficulty for Maddie's parents though is that woke and wandered if proven will only highlight their neglect.

One issue the archiving report could not have been more concise about was in clearing Kate and Gerry of any question of the crime of neglect or abandonment of the children.

The archiving report goes out of its way to eliminated it from the range of crimes being considered in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine.

The system of checking which was in place was considered by the report's authors to be enough to dismiss the suggestion that the children were abandoned or neglected.
The parents just didn't foresee that the supervisory model they adopted would ultimately prove to be inadequate.

Since that was the ruling of the time ... I don't see it holding any fears for Kate and Gerry at any time, particularly now ... and as we know, Bennett's attempt to institute proceedings in England against them ... also fell on deaf ears.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1006 on: May 26, 2019, 06:04:19 PM »
One issue the archiving report could not have been more concise about was in clearing Kate and Gerry of any question of the crime of neglect or abandonment of the children.

The archiving report goes out of its way to eliminated it from the range of crimes being considered in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine.

The system of checking which was in place was considered by the report's authors to be enough to dismiss the suggestion that the children were abandoned or neglected.
The parents just didn't foresee that the supervisory model they adopted would ultimately prove to be inadequate.

Since that was the ruling of the time ... I don't see it holding any fears for Kate and Gerry at any time, particularly now ... and as we know, Bennett's attempt to institute proceedings in England against them ... also fell on deaf ears.

We don't know why the Public Prosecutor (s) decided not to pursue the neglect issue. We do know that not all the Portuguese agreed with their decision.

We know that the UK Social Services visited the family when they returned home. We don't know what the outcome of that visit was.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 07:05:16 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1007 on: May 26, 2019, 07:08:47 PM »
We don't know why the Public Prosecutor (s) decided not to pursue the neglect issue. We do know that not all the Portuguese agreed with their decision.

We know that the UK Social Services visited the family when they returned home. We don't know what the outcome of that visit was.
Well we do know that the twins were not taken from the parents.
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1008 on: May 26, 2019, 07:42:13 PM »
One issue the archiving report could not have been more concise about was in clearing Kate and Gerry of any question of the crime of neglect or abandonment of the children.

The archiving report goes out of its way to eliminated it from the range of crimes being considered in relation to the disappearance of Madeleine.

The system of checking which was in place was considered by the report's authors to be enough to dismiss the suggestion that the children were abandoned or neglected.
The parents just didn't foresee that the supervisory model they adopted would ultimately prove to be inadequate.

Since that was the ruling of the time ... I don't see it holding any fears for Kate and Gerry at any time, particularly now ... and as we know, Bennett's attempt to institute proceedings in England against them ... also fell on deaf ears.

The archiving report could only consider neglect in the context of the children being left unattended, it did not consider whether the actions of her parents contributed to the disappearance. The report was also very clear in that it could not come to a conclusion as to the parents direct involvement in the disappearance because of the refusal of their friends to assist the enquiry.

The investigation has now moved on, it is becoming very clear that the child was not abducted by an intruder as the parents have always claimed. IMO what comes next in the current investigation could very well blow the lid on everything that has gone before.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 07:45:38 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Brietta

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1009 on: May 26, 2019, 11:41:40 PM »
The archiving report could only consider neglect in the context of the children being left unattended, it did not consider whether the actions of her parents contributed to the disappearance. The report was also very clear in that it could not come to a conclusion as to the parents direct involvement in the disappearance because of the refusal of their friends to assist the enquiry.

The investigation has now moved on, it is becoming very clear that the child was not abducted by an intruder as the parents have always claimed. IMO what comes next in the current investigation could very well blow the lid on everything that has gone before.

I think we all may have been misled by a total misunderstanding or it may even be a misrepresentation of what was actually said in the archiving document by the Attorney General if I am following correctly a previous discussion on the forum:

Snip

There seems to be some kind of misapprehension that the writer of the Archival Report is stating the the McCanns failed to prove their innocence.
This just is not the case.
Legal authorities such as Prosecutors and Attorney Generals would not be so ignorant of the law.

The reason for this misapprehension comes from people like you deliberately (or through shambolic ignorance) mis-quoting the relevant section of the report and moreover doing so without reference to the context.

Your mis-quotation is:
"they failed to prove what they insisted since the beginning, that they were innocent"

The actual text is:
"We believe that the main damage was caused to the McCann arguidos, who lost the possibility to prove what they have protested since they were constituted arguidos: their innocence towards the fateful event; the investigation was also disturbed, because said facts remain unclarified."

Those reading and comparing will see that you have twisted the meaning which in context will be seen to be much clearer.

The context being that the writer is referring to the lack of a reconstruction and is stating that this lack caused damage to the McCanns, not that the McCanns caused damage to themselves.

At no point did the McCanns refuse a reconstruction.

To go from this mis-quotation and twisting as you have done and to suggest the bizarre notion that the Portuguese authorities are claiming that innocent people should have to prove that innocence is risible.
Lawyers understand that is not the case even if you don't.

When there is no evidence of any crime by a person, when there are no charges against that person then that person in a civilised society such as Portugal claims to be, have the right to be presumed innocent.

When you show that you or the police have evidence enough to charge either of the McCanns then maybe they will become suspects again.
Till then, I repeat they are presumed innocent and it is libel to claim them guilty of any crime.

I believe I have demonstrated a more accurate reading of the files than you have done. Your mis-quotation shows a very flimsy regard to the content of the files.

I repeat that they have been specifically cleared of the crime of neglect/abandonment because the authorities have demonstrated that no such crime occurred.

I will also correct you in that they are not "the first and only suspects" in this case.
The archived case has no current suspects at all or it would not be archived.
Should some evidence appear incriminating anyone then that person/persons would be the prime suspects. And in the case of the parallel investigation from Scotland Yard, you appear unaware that the McCanns and the Tapas group have specifically been named as not being suspects or persons of interest. Your comment is therefore simply wrong both within Portugal and within the UK.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2001.msg66153#msg66153


Anne Guedes confirms Gilet's translation:

Snip

Yes, the AG report says "they lost the possibility to prove" and not "they failed to prove".
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2001.msg66155#msg66155

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1010 on: May 27, 2019, 08:36:29 AM »
We don't know why the Public Prosecutor (s) decided not to pursue the neglect issue. We do know that not all the Portuguese agreed with their decision.

We know that the UK Social Services visited the family when they returned home. We don't know what the outcome of that visit was.

Did he not say that there was No Intent?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1011 on: May 27, 2019, 08:38:13 AM »

Excellent,  Brietta.  And already posted and verified here.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1012 on: May 27, 2019, 09:23:25 AM »
Did he not say that there was No Intent?

As I said, others in Portugal thought there was a case to answer;

Former minister of internal affairs Rui Pereira slammed Portuguese cops for
not making Kate, 48, and 47-year-old dad Gerry suspects for abandonment.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1151476/revealed-why-the-portuguese-police-didnt-charge-mccanns-for-childrens-abandonment-after-maddie-disappeared/

Ricardo Paiva;
“They should have been pursued for neglect. People have been arrested for far less – even in the UK.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/6974917/Madeleine-McCanns-death-covered-up-by-parents-who-faked-kidnap-court-hears.html

British people agreed;
according to media lawyer Mark Lewis, who said the parents might have been charged with child neglect had they come from a less privileged background.
Read more at https://talkradio.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-if-parents-had-been-black-and-council-estate-they-might-have-been-charged#IEfM6OfDyIMIpMxP.99



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Result = happy posting.
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Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Brietta

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1013 on: May 27, 2019, 09:24:33 AM »
Excellent,  Brietta.  And already posted and verified here.

I think the standard of that post from Gilet typifies John's recent post requiring members to ... " ... please keep posts amicable and informative at all times. TY."

It certainly is informative and Anne's imprimatur of it demonstrates her impartiality and interest in the accuracy of postings here ... and I think confirms the ethos and reputation of this forum for posting factually validated information.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1014 on: May 27, 2019, 09:26:03 AM »
As I said, others in Portugal thought there was a case to answer;

Former minister of internal affairs Rui Pereira slammed Portuguese cops for
not making Kate, 48, and 47-year-old dad Gerry suspects for abandonment.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1151476/revealed-why-the-portuguese-police-didnt-charge-mccanns-for-childrens-abandonment-after-maddie-disappeared/

Ricardo Paiva;
“They should have been pursued for neglect. People have been arrested for far less – even in the UK.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/portugal/6974917/Madeleine-McCanns-death-covered-up-by-parents-who-faked-kidnap-court-hears.html

British people agreed;
according to media lawyer Mark Lewis, who said the parents might have been charged with child neglect had they come from a less privileged background.
Read more at https://talkradio.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-if-parents-had-been-black-and-council-estate-they-might-have-been-charged#IEfM6OfDyIMIpMxP.99

It wasn't for them to decide, was it.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1015 on: May 27, 2019, 09:29:27 AM »
I think the standard of that post from Gilet typifies John's recent post requiring members to ... " ... please keep posts amicable and informative at all times. TY."

It certainly is informative and Anne's imprimatur of it demonstrates her impartiality and interest in the accuracy of postings here ... and I think confirms the ethos and reputation of this forum for posting factually validated information.
Bring back Gilet, a truly excellent member of this forum!
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline jassi

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1016 on: May 27, 2019, 09:30:35 AM »
Bring back Gilet, a truly excellent member of this forum!

I thought she was already here under a different name.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Erngath

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1017 on: May 27, 2019, 09:39:42 AM »
Bring back Gilet, a truly excellent member of this forum!

Absolutely!
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1018 on: May 27, 2019, 09:41:49 AM »
I thought she was already here under a different name.
Not that I’m aware of! 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Eleanor

Re: Seems woke and wandered back in favour again.
« Reply #1019 on: May 27, 2019, 09:42:25 AM »
I thought she was already here under a different name.

Why would Gilet need to post under another name?