Author Topic: 2019.  (Read 3398 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: 2019.
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 12:18:13 PM »
I am thinking on the assumption that up until a certain age, parents have a right to refuse a DNA Test.

Also that you cannot simply go and snatch a child from the streets without proof.  DNA obtained by stealth wouldn't do because there would be no chain of evidence.

I think you are on the right track as far as DNA is involved. 
I think the police could ethically and legally carry out such tests in certain circumstances without permission being sought.

An example of DNA being obtained by police with cooperation happened quite recently in New Zealand ...
Snip
They investigated the first sighting and were "absolutely satisfied" it was not the missing girl but obtained a DNA sample after a request from Operation Grange, the British police task force investigating the disappearance.

Police said the New Zealand child's family provided the sample voluntarily and the DNA "does not provide a match for that of the missing girl".
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/9866714/DNA-confirms-New-Zealand-girl-is-not-Madeleine-McCann.html

An example of DNA being checked without permission in the course of an investigation and with a more ambiguous result is ...
Snip
The DNA - taken from a drink bottle and straw after a girl was seen with a man at a cafe - matched that of a man, prosecutors in Tongeren town said.

It "doesn't mean that the presence of Maddie is excluded", they added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6936214.stm

I think DNA evidence will play a major part in recovering Madeleine; the main problem I think my be gaining access to her to collect it.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Eleanor

Re: 2019.
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 12:21:25 PM »
As I have said before, if OG have hard evidence most foreign police forces would investigate if requested. Clandestinely approaching a young person to give DNA without her family's knowledge and approval is beyond the pale in my opinion.

This is irrelevant since it wouldn't be acceptable In Law.

Online Eleanor

Re: 2019.
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2019, 12:30:06 PM »
What if they're not her family though?

Someone will have attempted this if it was thought to be of some purpose. 

It is always possible that anyone who might have Madeleine now, doesn't actually know who she is.

Online Eleanor

Re: 2019.
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 12:31:10 PM »
That would have to be proved before the DNA could be taken. Until then, they would be assumed to be the parents.

Sounds like Catch 22

This very much what it could be.

Online G-Unit

Re: 2019.
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2019, 01:45:27 PM »
This is irrelevant since it wouldn't be acceptable In Law.

Therefore asking a girl for DNA without family awareness won't happen.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online Eleanor

Re: 2019.
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 02:18:51 PM »
Therefore asking a girl for DNA without family awareness won't happen.

It could if the girl is over the age of consent.  But there is a danger in this because her family could move somewhere else with her if they know that this has happened.

It is in fact a minefield.

It is so easy for us all to speculate.  I know that Madeleine could be dead, but I do so desperately hope that she isn't.  Although what good that will do is a bit beyond my thinking.

Online G-Unit

Re: 2019.
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2019, 02:28:21 PM »
It could if the girl is over the age of consent.  But there is a danger in this because her family could move somewhere else with her if they know that this has happened.

It is in fact a minefield.

It is so easy for us all to speculate.  I know that Madeleine could be dead, but I do so desperately hope that she isn't.  Although what good that will do is a bit beyond my thinking.

Without cast iron evidence no young person should be involved in this. It's being inferred that she isn't who she thinks she is. She stands to lose her family, her culture and her faith in humanity.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Lace

Re: 2019.
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2019, 02:51:35 PM »
OG havenít issued a photo fit in over 5 years. Neither have they made any requests for information. That suggests to me that they are working on the premise that she is no longer alive.

OG asked the parents not to give statements on the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance,  to me that says they don't want anything to rock the investigation,  maybe putting out an updated photo fit of Madeleine would lead to something, maybe who ever has got her could be spooked by it and move her away somewhere else.  Could be OG know where she is and who has got her and are being very careful about how they can get her away.IMO

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: 2019.
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2019, 02:54:33 PM »
Without cast iron evidence no young person should be involved in this. It's being inferred that she isn't who she thinks she is. She stands to lose her family, her culture and her faith in humanity.
Only if she was taken illegally by her current family.  You seem to be suggesting that children who are stolen and placed within new families and cultures should be left alone in case it upsets their faith in humanity.  Thatís quite bizarre IMO, if you believe in justice.
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about themď - David James Smith

Offline jassi

Re: 2019.
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2019, 03:05:25 PM »
Only if she was taken illegally by her current family.  You seem to be suggesting that children who are stolen and placed within new families and cultures should be left alone in case it upsets their faith in humanity.  Thatís quite bizarre IMO, if you believe in justice.

It is necessary to legally prove this is the case.
Countries will vary, but if satisfactory evidence is put before a court, then the court can decide if DNA test is appropriate
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Online Eleanor

Re: 2019.
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2019, 03:09:26 PM »
Only if she was taken illegally by her current family.  You seem to be suggesting that children who are stolen and placed within new families and cultures should be left alone in case it upsets their faith in humanity.  Thatís quite bizarre IMO, if you believe in justice.

If Madeleine is living with another family and in ignorance, then there is no question of what must be done.  The real harm was done nearly twelve years ago.  No one should be allowed to get away with this.

Online Eleanor

Re: 2019.
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2019, 03:12:16 PM »
It is necessary to legally prove this is the case.
Countries will vary, but if satisfactory evidence is put before a court, then the court can decide if DNA test is appropriate

If only it were that simple.  Some countries will demand proof before it sees the inside of a Courtroom.  This proof will be difficult to get.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: 2019.
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2019, 03:16:38 PM »
It is necessary to legally prove this is the case.
Countries will vary, but if satisfactory evidence is put before a court, then the court can decide if DNA test is appropriate
Do you have an example?
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about themď - David James Smith

Offline jassi

Re: 2019.
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2019, 03:19:50 PM »
If only it were that simple.  Some countries will demand proof before it sees the inside of a Courtroom.  This proof will be difficult to get.

I would expect most countries would demand proof, and with good reason - IMO

It is not acceptable for someone to make claims, merely on 'feelings'

I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline jassi

Re: 2019.
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2019, 03:20:21 PM »
Do you have an example?

rxample of what?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.