Author Topic: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?  (Read 1796 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2019, 08:38:05 PM »
The context is that a member thought that UK authorities would have released the information the McCanns wanted if it hadn't been for those pesky Portuguese secrecy laws. The truth is that the UK authorities were more concerned with secrecy than the Portuguese were. That's why they refused the McCann's request. My cite demonstrates how the UK authorities took action to keep their information from being released with the Portuguese files.

Therefore clearly absolutely nothing at all to do with either the McCann's legal action or anything to do with them at all which your post appears to misleadingly imply.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2019, 09:06:39 PM »
Therefore clearly absolutely nothing at all to do with either the McCann's legal action or anything to do with them at all which your post appears to misleadingly imply.

If the UK authorities had given civilians personal details of those who contacted them or answered their questions they would have been breaking the law.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2019, 09:45:26 PM »
God, you’re so clever it makes me want to weep.

Are you not British? or are you actually one of The Grauniad Types you so decry?
It's all about being British and eccentric.
Make a law in 1963 and nearly sixty years later no one takes much notice of it or even knows it exists except a few engineers and scientists.
A bit like 80 grands worth of motor on the drive and a garage, with locks and alarms, containing a grands worth of tat.
So dreadfully British and droll.
I'll pm you a packet of Handy Andies.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2019, 09:58:18 PM »
Are you not British? or are you actually one of The Grauniad Types you so decry?
It's all about being British and eccentric.
Make a law in 1963 and nearly sixty years later no one takes much notice of it or even knows it exists except a few engineers and scientists.
A bit like 80 grands worth of motor on the drive and a garage, with locks and alarms, containing a grands worth of tat.
So dreadfully British and droll.
I'll pm you a packet of Handy Andies.
8)><(
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #184 on: January 10, 2019, 10:40:11 PM »
New Levi Bellfield drama sees THREE more women come forward as 'attack victims'
The ITV series Manhunt details the capture of Levi Bellfield, who murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler, 13, and students Amelie Delagrange, 22, and Marsha McDonnell, 19, between 2002 and 2004

ByChris Kitching
13:46, 8 JAN 2019

A new drama about the capture of serial killer Levi Bellfield has inspired three more women to come forward claiming he attacked them.
_____________________________________________________

Manhunt details how DCI Sutton linked Delagrange's murder in 2004 to the murders of McDonnell in 2003 and Dowler in 2002.

Mr Sutton, now retired, said this week that since the drama premiered on Sunday night three women have contacted him on Twitter claiming they were sexually assaulted by Bellfield.

He said he has been in contact with the women and he has made arrangements to speak to those who "want to be spoken to".

Mr Sutton told ITV News: "I’ve had another three ladies who have come forward to me via Twitter to say 'I was attacked by Levi Bellfield and I never reported it to police', and I’ve made contact with them ... and I’ve made arrangements to speak to those who want to be spoken to and to try and help them."

He added: "It’s not a complete surprise, to be honest.

"I’ve been involved in documentaries about Bellfield before and had the same effect.

"We just don’t know what the boundaries of this man’s offending were."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-levi-bellfield-drama-sees-13827409
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2019, 01:21:04 AM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7353737/Madeleine-McCann-more-than-50-new-leads.html

This is what you posted :

‘I believe the situation was resolved as a result of Paiva's testimony at the libel trial in 2010 when he admitted to holding a dossier of more than 2,000 pages containing information on Madeleine's case which had not been properly investigated’

This is what Paiva actually said in court ( with thanks to Barrier)

‘Paiva went to great lengths to explain that although the investigation was officially shelved it still continued and still does to this day.  Although he no longer works in the Portimão office, new information still comes in all the time as far as he is aware and is logged and cross checked and correlated.  He says that he himself continued to work on the case even after it was shelved.’

Now please provide a cite that supports your contention or remove your accusation please. As a mod you really should know better.

Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #186 on: January 12, 2019, 07:14:49 AM »
This is what you posted :

‘I believe the situation was resolved as a result of Paiva's testimony at the libel trial in 2010 when he admitted to holding a dossier of more than 2,000 pages containing information on Madeleine's case which had not been properly investigated’

This is what Paiva actually said in court ( with thanks to Barrier)

‘Paiva went to great lengths to explain that although the investigation was officially shelved it still continued and still does to this day.  Although he no longer works in the Portimão office, new information still comes in all the time as far as he is aware and is logged and cross checked and correlated.  He says that he himself continued to work on the case even after it was shelved.’

Now please provide a cite that supports your contention or remove your accusation please. As a mod you really should know better.


LOL at “this is what Paiva actually ssys”.  From someone who rejects everything written in the press especially if there are no direct quotes you post is really quite laughable.
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Offline barrier

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #187 on: January 12, 2019, 09:07:37 AM »
This is what you posted :

‘I believe the situation was resolved as a result of Paiva's testimony at the libel trial in 2010 when he admitted to holding a dossier of more than 2,000 pages containing information on Madeleine's case which had not been properly investigated’

This is what Paiva actually said in court ( with thanks to Barrier)

‘Paiva went to great lengths to explain that although the investigation was officially shelved it still continued and still does to this day.  Although he no longer works in the Portimão office, new information still comes in all the time as far as he is aware and is logged and cross checked and correlated.  He says that he himself continued to work on the case even after it was shelved.’

Now please provide a cite that supports your contention or remove your accusation please. As a mod you really should know better.



From the trial 8/10/2013.http://mccannvamarallibeltrial.blogspot.com/2013/10/ricardo-paiva.html

Quote
The Judge asks when he participated in the investigation.
RP says it was from the very beginning and lasted up to the shelving of the process. He adds that even afterwards, he continued to analyse information which kept arriving at the Portimão Criminal Investigation Department (DIC).

Quote
a) Guerra & Paz's lawyer, Dra Fátima Esteves, is the first to question the witness.

GP – Considering the investigation, can you affirm whether, because of the book, the PJ stopped collecting information?
RP As I said to the Court, there was no effect on the collection and subsequent examination of new  information on this case.

Quote
GP – Do you know if the investigation was reopened later, with new information?
RP It wasn't formally reopened. However, several pieces of information arrived about possible places where Madeleine could be. Individuals also said they had information. All this was investigated and the proceedings were released to the Portimão Court.

b) GA's lawyer, Dr Santos de Oliveira.


Quote
SO – When the files are shelved, is it normal to continue to process information?
RP says "yes". The police have to examine every piece of information in order to establish whether it is relevant or not.

SO – Was a work team constituted to process information?
RP says they were two officers for that job, both of them having knowledge about the case. The witness then alludes to the Scotland Yard review and says that the processed information was transmitted to the team that worked with SY.



Neddie Seagoon : [discovering Eccles in the coal cellar]  What are you doing here?
Eccles : Everybody's gotta be somewhere...

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #188 on: January 12, 2019, 10:46:00 AM »
From the trial 8/10/2013.http://mccannvamarallibeltrial.blogspot.com/2013/10/ricardo-paiva.html

b) GA's lawyer, Dr Santos de Oliveira.

Thank you Barrier. So this posted by Brietta is wholly untrue:

‘I believe the situation was resolved as a result of Paiva's testimony at the libel trial in 2010 when he admitted to holding a dossier of more than 2,000 pages containing information on Madeleine's case which had not been properly investigated’

You have to wonder why Brietta chose to distort those unambiguous statements from Paiva.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #189 on: January 12, 2019, 07:15:01 PM »
So, say a sighting comes in to the PJ in 2009 from the police in New Zealand of a possible sighting of Madeleine.  Paiva says it is investigated and marks it irrelevant.  On what basis, exactly?  How is the investigation conducted into the sighting?
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Offline jassi

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2019, 07:44:41 PM »
So, say a sighting comes in to the PJ in 2009 from the police in New Zealand of a possible sighting of Madeleine.  Paiva says it is investigated and marks it irrelevant.  On what basis, exactly?  How is the investigation conducted into the sighting?

Do you not think that the NZ police would investigate the claim to their own satisfaction before informing the Portuguese?
To not investigate a claim on their own soil would leave them open to criticism of their professionalism - IMO
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2019, 08:48:21 PM »
Do you not think that the NZ police would investigate the claim to their own satisfaction before informing the Portuguese?
To not investigate a claim on their own soil would leave them open to criticism of their professionalism - IMO
Do you not think if the NZ police investigated it and discovered it was not Madeleine they would have bothered to send it to the PJ?
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Offline jassi

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2019, 09:27:10 PM »
Why not? It's no great hardship to send an email saying ' we had a report of a sighting on Madeleine McCann her in NZ but it turned out to be nothing of the sort'

Even if they'd notified Portugal before doing any investigation, it's not as if Portugal would send anyone out there, outside of their jurisdiction and with no authority, so NZ would have to do the investigation anyway.

Same with any country really, PJ would rely on local police to investigate and report back.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #193 on: January 12, 2019, 11:53:34 PM »
Portuguese ignored NZ Madeline McCann 'sighting' - police
3 Mar, 2010 7:00pm  2 minutes to read
A CCTV image from a Dunedin supermarket showing a girl strongly resembling Madeleine McCann. Photo / Supplied
A CCTV image from a Dunedin supermarket showing a girl strongly resembling Madeleine McCann. Photo / Supplied
Herald online
New Zealand police are defending their response after reports of a possible sighting of missing British girl Madeline McCann in a Dunedin shop.

Madeline was four-years-old when she disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in Portugal in July 2008 while her parents dined at a restaurant less than 100m away.

A massive worldwide search for her was mounted but with no success.

However, it has just been revealed she may have been seen by a security guard at a Dunedin supermarket in December 2008, but the information was disregarded.

A 2000-page dossier from Portugal police contained a series of sightings from around the world - including CCTV footage from the Dunedin supermarket of a child resembling Madeleine - which were never investigated, Britain's Daily Mail reported today.

The Dunedin footage showed a girl "very like" Madeleine being led into a supermarket by a "portly man in shorts", The man's behaviour aroused the suspicions of a security guard who approached the girl to establish whether she was British.

Although the girl said her name was Hailey, the security guard was convinced the girl was Madeleine and reported the incident to police.

Dunedin police today confirmed they had received the information from the security guard.

Acting Southern District Commander, Inspector David Campbell, said police spoke with the woman to establish what had been seen.

A report was filed and police gathered security footage of the child, who had the appearance of Madeleine McCann, and the family with her, Mr Campbell said.

Police could not get any other information to help with the inquiry.

The file was then forwarded to Interpol, Mr Campbell said.

"The lead jurisdiction, in this case, Portugal, directs how the case progresses and has not asked NZ Police for any follow-up to date."

The file has remained open ever since, Mr Campbell said.

Madeleine's parents Gerry and Kate were reported to be "gutted" and "incensed" that their private investigators were not given access to the information, The Daily Mail reported

"There are instances where information which we think is very credible and worthy of information has not been actioned," Mrs McCann said.

Information that police forces in the United States, Europe and North Africa considered important was also discarded, the dossier revealed.
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel

Online Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #194 on: January 12, 2019, 11:58:49 PM »
Why not? It's no great hardship to send an email saying ' we had a report of a sighting on Madeleine McCann her in NZ but it turned out to be nothing of the sort'

Even if they'd notified Portugal before doing any investigation, it's not as if Portugal would send anyone out there, outside of their jurisdiction and with no authority, so NZ would have to do the investigation anyway.

Same with any country really, PJ would rely on local police to investigate and report back.
That doesn’t appear to be how it works.
"Oh dear. Madeleine McCann trending. That's twitterspeak for 'And now, the absolute worst of humanity.'" -
David Baddiel