Author Topic: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?  (Read 9019 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #750 on: February 11, 2019, 07:21:16 PM »
It's strange that they took it on given the distance, the language barrier, the different jusicial system and the cold trail. No-one seemed to consider the difficulties they would face, did they?

You must remember that it was all politically driven and that they are not known for their attention to detail, so wouldn't appreciate the operational difficulties.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #751 on: February 11, 2019, 08:04:28 PM »
It's strange that they took it on given the distance, the language barrier, the different jusicial system and the cold trail. No-one seemed to consider the difficulties they would face, did they?
The case could only be re-opened if new evidence came to light.  Do you think the PJ re-opened the investigation under false pretences?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #752 on: February 11, 2019, 08:53:25 PM »
You must remember that it was all politically driven and that they are not known for their attention to detail, so wouldn't appreciate the operational difficulties.

Thinking back, there was some grumbling at the beginning. The lack of a joint inbestigation, the fact that the PJ didn't immediately reopen the investigation in Portugal, the slowness of the responses to the rog requests. Perhaps OG thought they were going to have more freedom to act than they got. 
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #753 on: February 11, 2019, 09:01:11 PM »
Thinking back, there was some grumbling at the beginning. The lack of a joint inbestigation, the fact that the PJ didn't immediately reopen the investigation in Portugal, the slowness of the responses to the rog requests. Perhaps OG thought they were going to have more freedom to act than they got.
Or perhaps they believed the PJ actually wanted to help solve this case, how mistaken were they?!
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #754 on: February 11, 2019, 09:15:37 PM »
Or perhaps they believed the PJ actually wanted to help solve this case, how mistaken were they?!

There were a lot of tensions in Portugal initially regarding Madeleine's case and I would not think all the tensions were between the Portuguese and the English.

Surely there must have been sound reasons why the review work which allowed for Madeleine's case to be reopened was carried out exclusively by Judicial Police based in Porto and without recourse to personnel from the Algarve.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #755 on: February 12, 2019, 07:15:20 AM »
Or perhaps they believed the PJ actually wanted to help solve this case, how mistaken were they?!

You seem to think OG were in charge, but they weren't and aren't. They have made it quite clear that the Portuguese have primacy and OG are the ones helping.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #756 on: February 12, 2019, 08:16:56 AM »
You seem to think OG were in charge, but they weren't and aren't. They have made it quite clear that the Portuguese have primacy and OG are the ones helping.
And you seem to think the PJ are in charge and doing absolutely nothing apart from “looking at” and “considering”.  If true then shame on them. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #757 on: February 12, 2019, 08:47:41 AM »
And you seem to think the PJ are in charge and doing absolutely nothing apart from “looking at” and “considering”.  If true then shame on them.

That's not what I said, it's what you think I said.

The PJ definitely have primacy whatever anyone thinks; it's the legal reality.

Although I have seen no evidence telling me what the PJ have been doing, that doesn't mean I've decided they're doing nothing. It means I don't know.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #758 on: February 12, 2019, 02:41:52 PM »
That's not what I said, it's what you think I said.

The PJ definitely have primacy whatever anyone thinks; it's the legal reality.

Although I have seen no evidence telling me what the PJ have been doing, that doesn't mean I've decided they're doing nothing. It means I don't know.

Don't you think this is a bit of a redundant argument?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #759 on: February 12, 2019, 04:56:41 PM »
Don't you think this is a bit of a redundant argument?

Are you referring to my post? I didn't post an argument, I posted facts. The PJ have primacy and we don't know what they are doing. What they aren't doing, accotding to do Carmo, is restricting themselves,like OG, to investigating abduction.

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Offline Davel

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #760 on: February 12, 2019, 05:00:14 PM »
Are you referring to my post? I didn't post an argument, I posted facts. The PJ have primacy and we don't know what they are doing. What they aren't doing, accotding to do Carmo, is restricting themselves,like OG, to investigating abduction.

There is no evidence to suggest that if during their investigation of an abduction that if evidence came to light that an abduction didn't happen.... Then that evidence would not be followed.... Woke and wandered fir example
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 05:03:13 PM by Davel »
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Offline Brietta

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #761 on: February 12, 2019, 05:40:29 PM »
Are you referring to my post? I didn't post an argument, I posted facts. The PJ have primacy and we don't know what they are doing. What they aren't doing, accotding to do Carmo, is restricting themselves,like OG, to investigating abduction.

Do you think that Sutton would have ignored evidence because he was bound by a 'remit'?  What remit restricted the Portuguese investigation in 2007 from checking out cases which might have had a link to Madeleine's case?

Snip
Police are especially interested in a 2005 sexual assault against a 10-year-old girl in the very resort in Praia de Luz where McCann disappeared two years later. The perpetrator had never been caught, but the girl had given a clear description of the attacker to police. “In this new tranche of information we have got one crime which is very clearly in the heart of Praia da Luz in 2005, on a young, white, 10-year-old girl,” chief detective Andy Redwood told reporters on Wednesday. “Clearly the fact that we’ve now got an assault that is in the heart of Praia da Luz, very close to where a previous matter had been reported, means that we are even more interested in this as part of the inquiry.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/was-madeline-mccann-one-of-many

The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #762 on: February 12, 2019, 06:31:48 PM »
That's not what I said, it's what you think I said.

The PJ definitely have primacy whatever anyone thinks; it's the legal reality.

Although I have seen no evidence telling me what the PJ have been doing, that doesn't mean I've decided they're doing nothing. It means I don't know.
So when they re-opened the case and said they were looking at all scenarios you don’t know if they actually did any investigating or not.  Is it not reasonable to expect that they did, and would it not be extremely unreasonable of them to have spent the last few years doing no investigating at all? 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #763 on: February 12, 2019, 07:25:25 PM »
Do you think that Sutton would have ignored evidence because he was bound by a 'remit'?  What remit restricted the Portuguese investigation in 2007 from checking out cases which might have had a link to Madeleine's case?

Snip
Police are especially interested in a 2005 sexual assault against a 10-year-old girl in the very resort in Praia de Luz where McCann disappeared two years later. The perpetrator had never been caught, but the girl had given a clear description of the attacker to police. “In this new tranche of information we have got one crime which is very clearly in the heart of Praia da Luz in 2005, on a young, white, 10-year-old girl,” chief detective Andy Redwood told reporters on Wednesday. “Clearly the fact that we’ve now got an assault that is in the heart of Praia da Luz, very close to where a previous matter had been reported, means that we are even more interested in this as part of the inquiry.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/was-madeline-mccann-one-of-many



In my opinion it's necessary to prove that the PJ knew about these cases before accusing them of ignoring them,
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 07:31:06 PM by G-Unit »
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Online G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #764 on: February 12, 2019, 07:33:19 PM »
So when they re-opened the case and said they were looking at all scenarios you don’t know if they actually did any investigating or not.  Is it not reasonable to expect that they did, and would it not be extremely unreasonable of them to have spent the last few years doing no investigating at all?

I will leave the speculating to you if you don't mind.
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