Author Topic: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.  (Read 3273 times)

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Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2019, 12:13:42 PM »

Is this your opinion formed from your time living in Scotland?
Do you believe that to be Scottish one has to play the bagpipes, wear a kilt and speak the Gaelic?

G was making a very fair point. there is an invisible border between the highlands and the central belt. Which brought in the Irish to work in the very lively industrial belt. Many scottish men were slaughtered during the first world war... there was a deficit of male workers, and a lot of widows- Catholics have more children due to their doctrine and loyalty to a childless wealthy man they call pope, they had a famine it made sense to bring those who wanted to come over here.   The troubles came with them though...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:05:42 PM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline G-Unit

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2019, 12:14:41 PM »

Is this your opinion formed from your time living in Scotland?
Do you believe that to be Scottish one has to play the bagpipes, wear a kilt and speak the Gaelic?

No. I'm speaking of what makes a nation. Anyone born in the country of Scotland is Scottish but that doesn't make them part of a Scottish nation. Country and nation are not interchangeable terms.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline John

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2019, 12:17:49 PM »
You need to brush up on your history re the English skirmishes with Scotland.  There never was a Glorious Union.

I think MTI might be referring to James I of England who was also James VI of Scotland.

James VI and I (James Charles Stuart; 19 June 1566 27 March 1625) was King of Scotland as James VI from 24 July 1567 and King of England and Ireland as James I from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until his death in 1625. The kingdoms of Scotland and England were individual sovereign states, with their own parliaments, judiciaries, and laws, though both were ruled by James in personal union.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_VI_and_I
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2019, 12:20:08 PM »
You need to brush up on your history re the English skirmishes with Scotland.  There never was a Glorious Union.


I don't think so.  I know it well- I live here and was educated, not just by books, but from stories passed down from my ancestors. I never claimed there was a glorious union.

I am claiming that men and women who were born in different parts of the UK union fought together and died together to save us from ... well  EU countries who tried to rule us... oh but wait...  8**8:/:
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:06:20 PM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Eleanor

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2019, 12:24:01 PM »
I think MTI might be referring to James I of England who was also James VI of Scotland.

James VI and I (James Charles Stuart; 19 June 1566 27 March 1625) was King of Scotland as James VI from 24 July 1567 and King of England and Ireland as James I from the union of the Scottish and English crowns on 24 March 1603 until his death in 1625. The kingdoms of Scotland and England were individual sovereign states, with their own parliaments, judiciaries, and laws, though both were ruled by James in personal union.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_VI_and_I

I was referring to "The Glorious Union."

Offline Erngath

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 12:27:26 PM »
No. I'm speaking of what makes a nation. Anyone born in the country of Scotland is Scottish but that doesn't make them part of a Scottish nation. Country and nation are not interchangeable terms.

According to you there is no Scottish nation, only a country!!
How many nations do you believe there are in the world apart from the Irish and the Kurds?
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 12:40:52 PM »
The Irish who came to work here were castigated by families back home for  'working for the nasty British' The pope wanted a foot hold so sent in the priests to make sure those catholics were kept under control. And just in case you missed it The catholic church deny womens rights and freedoms and sexual expression. In Ireland, condoms are looked upon as a bad thing and abortions are still illegal! whether you belive in abortions or not.

The oppression, rape, murder and abuse on the Irish by the 'catholic church' is well documented. so don't blame me  for telling it like it is!  Some catholics hated being catholics and wanted to be free.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:08:03 PM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Erngath

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 12:43:18 PM »
I was referring to "The Glorious Union."



The notion that the young generation of voters who are seeking Independence base that desire because of skirmishes and battles with the English hundreds of years ago is insulting to their intelligence.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Erngath

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2019, 12:46:31 PM »
The Irish who came to work here were castigated by families back home for  'working for the nasty British' The pope wanted a foot hold so sent in the priests to make sure those catholics were kept under control. And just in case you missed it The catholic church deny womens rights and freedoms and sexual expression. In Ireland, condoms are looked upon as a bad thing and abortions are still illegal! whether you belive in abortions or not.

The oppression, rape, murder and abuse on the Irish by the 'catholic church' is well documented. so don't blame me  for telling it like it is!  Some catholics hated being catholics and wanted to be free.


Ah!
I understand now the stories your  "ancestors" have passed down to you.
All is clear now.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:08:54 PM by John »
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline John

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2019, 01:26:21 PM »
I was referring to "The Glorious Union."

Yes, the union of the Crowns.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2019, 01:27:22 PM »


The notion that the young generation of voters who are seeking Independence base that desire because of skirmishes and battles with the English hundreds of years ago is insulting to their intelligence.

And you speak on their behalf.  OK.

 I must have missed that sound ecomomic policy which would bring great wealth and jobs to scotland as a result on Independance.  Perhaps you can provide it for me to have a read and perhaps I will change my mind...

And mibeeez you can also explain why young talents are leaving this country to move to England as they will pay less tax! 

The SNP wanted tax raising powers , what did they do? they stole from the low paid... yes indeed. they did. Many who were brought into a tax bracket they were not in before.. OH MY socialist policy at work.


It should be clear that those who lived through the history and were part of it have a clearer recall than those infeted history books.

My great aunt was tarred and feathered because she kissed a proddy! (Protestant) They got married -her family hated all of us even though their daughter was well loved and cared for by her inlaws- she left abject poverty to a wealthy family. And some members of my mothers side hated her because she was a catholic!- so spare me the sarcasm - you do not own the history of Scotland. My Family goes way way back to the Stewarts.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:10:47 PM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Erngath

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2019, 01:36:21 PM »
And you speak on their behalf.  OK.

 I must have missed that sound ecomomic policy which would bring great wealth and jobs to scotland as a result on Independance.  Perhaps you can provide it for me to have a read and perhaps I will change my mind...

And mibeeez you can also explain why young talents are leaving this country to move to England as they will pay less tax! 

The SNP wanted tax raising powers , what did they do? they stole from the low paid... yes indeed. they did. Many who were brought into a tax bracket they were not in before.. OH MY socialist policy at work.


It should be clear that those who lived through the history and were part of it have a clearer recall than those infeted history books.

My great aunt was tarred and feathered because she kissed a proddy! (Protestant) They got married -her family hated all of us even though their daughter was well loved and cared for by her inlaws- she left abject poverty to a wealthy family. And some members of my mothers side hated her because she was a catholic!- so spare me the sarcasm - you do not own the history of Scotland. My Family goes way way back to the Stewarts.


Fortunately my Protestant Great Grandfather and my Catholic Great Grandmother came from more enlightened  and tolerant families.
Therefore I cannot identify with such bigotry and nastiness.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:11:10 PM by John »
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2019, 01:44:15 PM »

Fortunately my Protestant Great Grandfather and my Catholic Great Grandmother came from more enlightened  and tolerant families.
Therefore I cannot identify with such bigotry and nastiness.

 haha you don't live in the central belt?  you don't witness the bigotry. Good for you.  keep them eyes closed you are missing a lot of things!

IMO It was more to do with intolerance and ignorance AND mind bendingly fear of an oppressive religion- but you like put your own take on it .I get it. *%87
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline John

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2019, 02:11:53 PM »
Please keep posts civil and relevant. TY
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Erngath

Re: Scottish history, nationhood and independence.
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2019, 02:22:20 PM »
haha you don't live in the central belt?  you don't witness the bigotry. Good for you.  keep them eyes closed you are missing a lot of things!

IMO It was more to do with intolerance and ignorance AND mind bendingly fear of an oppressive religion- but you like put your own take on it .I get it. *%87




Actually I do live in the central belt of Scotland and although I personally have not been the victim of intolerance, I am aware that such intolerance exists.

Your continual deprecation of all things related to Catholicism is interesting but has nothing to do with the discussion of independence for Scotland or whether Scotland is indeed just a country but not a nation.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.