Author Topic: Brexit and Moral Obligations.  (Read 2221 times)

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Online G-Unit

Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« on: February 03, 2019, 08:22:33 AM »
The Moral Maze discussed the moral duty of MP's. Melanie Phillips put the case that I have been making; that MP's moral duty is to keep their promises. They promised to abide by the result of the Brexit referendum and they should do it. Some MP's, she said, are trying to reverse the result of the referendim while pretending that's not what they are doing. She, like me, sees that as dishonest and immoral.

There followed a lot of discussion about sovereignty, where power ultimarely lies, what MP's are entitled to do and so on. In my opinion none of it was able to answer or negate Phillip's point because her point is bery clear and very simple. There's no excuse for breaking your promises!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002828
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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 10:19:33 AM »
The Moral Maze discussed the moral duty of MP's. Melanie Phillips put the case that I have been making; that MP's moral duty is to keep their promises. They promised to abide by the result of the Brexit referendum and they should do it. Some MP's, she said, are trying to reverse the result of the referendim while pretending that's not what they are doing. She, like me, sees that as dishonest and immoral.

There followed a lot of discussion about sovereignty, where power ultimarely lies, what MP's are entitled to do and so on. In my opinion none of it was able to answer or negate Phillip's point because her point is bery clear and very simple. There's no excuse for breaking your promises!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002828

An MP’s responsibility is to act in the best interest of their constituents.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2019, 10:26:23 AM »
An MP’s responsibility is to act in the best interest of their constituents.

And collectively in the best interests of the country.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 10:31:54 AM »
Anna Soubry (Conservative) on party versus country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWbnOtXHVGk


Online Davel

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 10:36:34 AM »
The Moral Maze discussed the moral duty of MP's. Melanie Phillips put the case that I have been making; that MP's moral duty is to keep their promises. They promised to abide by the result of the Brexit referendum and they should do it. Some MP's, she said, are trying to reverse the result of the referendim while pretending that's not what they are doing. She, like me, sees that as dishonest and immoral.

There followed a lot of discussion about sovereignty, where power ultimarely lies, what MP's are entitled to do and so on. In my opinion none of it was able to answer or negate Phillip's point because her point is bery clear and very simple. There's no excuse for breaking your promises!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002828

as far as I can see MPs made no promise to implement the result of the referendum....and as I understand its  only because of the legal challenge that MPs were given the right to vote on it...it was camerons govt that made the promise...not MPs
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Online G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 10:47:07 AM »
An MP’s responsibility is to act in the best interest of their constituents.

They voted to hold a referendum. By doing that they accepted that their constituents were going to decide for themselves what their best interests were.

After the result was known they voted to trigger Article 50. Bt doing that they accepted that the UK was going to leave the EU, even if no deal was negotiated.

Did they act against the best interests of their constituents when they did those things?
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Online G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2019, 10:49:20 AM »
And collectively in the best interests of the country.

I repeat; they voted for things which they now seem to believe were not in the best interests of the country.
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 10:51:32 AM »
They voted to hold a referendum. By doing that they accepted that their constituents were going to decide for themselves what their best interests were.

After the result was known they voted to trigger Article 50. Bt doing that they accepted that the UK was going to leave the EU, even if no deal was negotiated.

Did they act against the best interests of their constituents when they did those things?

Did MPs realise the implications of leaving at the time?

Online G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 10:52:45 AM »
as far as I can see MPs made no promise to implement the result of the referendum....and as I understand its  only because of the legal challenge that MPs were given the right to vote on it...it was camerons govt that made the promise...not MPs

Cameron pledged to abide by the result. All those who voted for the referendum bill did so knowing that, so they all endorsed it.
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Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 10:57:17 AM »
Cameron pledged to abide by the result. All those who voted for the referendum bill did so knowing that, so they all endorsed it.

If he did, that was a silly thing to do, IMO. He could have pledged that it would be 'given serious consideration as a valuable input' and left it at that. That, after all, is what an advisory referendum actually is.

He didn't stay around to deal with the mess, did he?

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 10:59:31 AM »
Another thought for the pot: what about constituencies in which the balance of Leave / Remain has since changed. What should / can MPs do about it?

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Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2019, 11:01:46 AM »
Did MPs realise the implications of leaving at the time?

Are you suggesting that no-one knew what they were doing but went ahead anyway? I'm quite prepared to believe that but not to see it as a viable excuse. 
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Online G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2019, 11:04:09 AM »
If he did, that was a silly thing to do, IMO. He could have pledged that it would be 'given serious consideration as a valuable input' and left it at that. That, after all, is what an advisory referendum actually is.

He didn't stay around to deal with the mess, did he?

Nevertheless that's what happened. They all agreed to implement the result.
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Online G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2019, 11:06:16 AM »
Another thought for the pot: what about constituencies in which the balance of Leave / Remain has since changed. What should / can MPs do about it?

They do what they do when it haopens following a general election. Nothing.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2019, 11:09:04 AM »
Nevertheless that's what happened. They all agreed to implement the result.
What does “implementing the result” actually mean, does anyone really know?
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