Author Topic: Brexit and Moral Obligations.  (Read 3616 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #165 on: February 27, 2019, 08:25:58 AM »
I have formed the impression that money is your priority because it seems to feature in so many of your posts.  I don't know if leaving the EU would make us poorer, forecasts are just guesses in the end.
You are intent on portraying me as obsessed with money which is utterly childish of you IMO.  If you think the state of the country’s economy is of secondary importance to grand ideas such as “taking back control “ then that is your prerogative.  I happen to believe that the health of the economy is of vital importance to every man, woman and child in this country and should not be deliberately damaged because of the significant harm it may cause many of those men, women and children.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #166 on: February 27, 2019, 08:28:16 AM »
I have formed the impression that money is your priority because it seems to feature in so many of your posts.  I don't know if leaving the EU would make us poorer, forecasts are just guesses in the end.
And I haven’t once mentioned the word money. Tsk.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #167 on: February 27, 2019, 10:24:02 AM »
And I haven’t once mentioned the word money. Tsk.

You're splitting hairs. That's what 'puts bread on the table', what you get for working and what companies run businesses for.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #168 on: February 27, 2019, 12:07:04 PM »
You're splitting hairs. That's what 'puts bread on the table', what you get for working and what companies run businesses for.

Which would you rather live in: a weak economy or a healthy one?

Online Davel

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #169 on: February 27, 2019, 12:29:43 PM »
You're splitting hairs. That's what 'puts bread on the table', what you get for working and what companies run businesses for.

if money is so unimportant why are those with your political leanings so intent on taking it from the rich
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #170 on: February 27, 2019, 02:30:13 PM »
if money is so unimportant why are those with your political leanings so intent on taking it from the rich

All governments take money from their citizens because otherwise there would be no money available for the public good. There would be no health service, no nice smooth public roads, no police or fire fighters and no help for the poor and disadvantaged. All governments take more from those who have more; the rich. The only difference is how much they think is reasonable.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #171 on: February 27, 2019, 09:02:36 PM »
You're splitting hairs. That's what 'puts bread on the table', what you get for working and what companies run businesses for.
Why did you choose to say “money” is my priority and not “the economy”?  You were obviously trying to put me in a bad light, but I don’t think prioritizing the economy is necessarily the preserve of the money-grubbing. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #172 on: February 27, 2019, 11:46:54 PM »
All governments take money from their citizens because otherwise there would be no money available for the public good. There would be no health service, no nice smooth public roads, no police or fire fighters and no help for the poor and disadvantaged. All governments take more from those who have more; the rich. The only difference is how much they think is reasonable.


I have no problem with that. What concerns me is that in a weak economy funding public services becomes more difficult.

Conversely, in a stronger economy there's more to deal with present needs as well as investing in a better future as opposed to struggling to deal with the minimum.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 12:09:39 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #173 on: February 28, 2019, 12:19:13 AM »

Leave.EU
‏Verified account @LeaveEUOfficial

WATCH | @Nigel_Farage: "We had a referendum, we backed it up in a general election. We then had 498 MPs vote for Article 50. It was very explicit what they voted for - we leave in 2 years, with or without a deal. Now we have politicians breaking their promise to the electorate."

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1100325693223829504

How on earth could the average person who voted for Brexit have had a clue about what a no-deal could entail?

Farage himself kept going on about how Norway was a great model - I posted the clip of him repeating that over and over in various sound bites.


Offline Eleanor

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #174 on: February 28, 2019, 07:53:11 AM »
Leave.EU
‏Verified account @LeaveEUOfficial

WATCH | @Nigel_Farage: "We had a referendum, we backed it up in a general election. We then had 498 MPs vote for Article 50. It was very explicit what they voted for - we leave in 2 years, with or without a deal. Now we have politicians breaking their promise to the electorate."

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1100325693223829504

How on earth could the average person who voted for Brexit have had a clue about what a no-deal could entail?

Farage himself kept going on about how Norway was a great model - I posted the clip of him repeating that over and over in various sound bites.

They, The MPs, never tell The Electorate enough, because they don't want you to know.  So they manipulate things for their own ends, although I am never sure what those ends are from either side.

Now, I no longer know what is best for Britain, although from this side of The Channel it doesn't really matter to me.  I have dealt with a Low Pound for a very long time, which hasn't been all that funny most of the time.  I lost a third of my Pension to Exchange Rates, when my Pension wasn't very good in the first place.

I am positive that there will be things in place to protect expats like me.  The Food Bank is my greatest gain, and it isn't even a Benefit.  It's a charitable hand out.  That at least will go on.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #175 on: February 28, 2019, 08:01:41 AM »
Leave.EU
‏Verified account @LeaveEUOfficial

WATCH | @Nigel_Farage: "We had a referendum, we backed it up in a general election. We then had 498 MPs vote for Article 50. It was very explicit what they voted for - we leave in 2 years, with or without a deal. Now we have politicians breaking their promise to the electorate."

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1100325693223829504

How on earth could the average person who voted for Brexit have had a clue about what a no-deal could entail?

Farage himself kept going on about how Norway was a great model - I posted the clip of him repeating that over and over in various sound bites.

It was up to the politicians to inform the people, surely? Why, after the people voted to leave, did the politicians then vote for Article 50? Di they not understand what they were voting for?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #176 on: February 28, 2019, 08:04:17 AM »
It was up to the politicians to inform the people, surely? Why, after the people voted to leave, did the politicians then vote for Article 50? Di they not understand what they were voting for?
Did they have a choice?  If they hadn’t wouldn’t you be lambasting them all as immoral?  Again??
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #177 on: February 28, 2019, 08:19:29 AM »
Two separate issues...

1) What is done with the money in the economy, how it is distributed, who it helps.

2) How much money is in the economy.

Brexit has a serious impact on the second which in turn prevents adjustment to the first.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #178 on: February 28, 2019, 08:49:25 AM »
It was up to the politicians to inform the people, surely? Why, after the people voted to leave, did the politicians then vote for Article 50? Di they not understand what they were voting for?

I skim-read a Twitter thread the other day by one of the legal eagles, and I'm trying to remember who it was to find it again.

The only bit I remember clearly is that Parliament didn't vote to trigger A50, but basically to give May the equivalent of a proxy to do so. Triggering it was an executive action on her part, which surprised me.

Trying to verify my recollection of the rest of the thread, I came upon this, which I find a bit confusing:

Brexit: MPs overwhelmingly back Article 50 bill

    1 February 2017
MPs have voted by a majority of 384 to allow Prime Minister Theresa May to get Brexit negotiations under way.

They backed the government's European Union Bill, supported by the Labour leadership, by 498 votes to 114.

But the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Liberal Democrats opposed the bill, while 47 Labour MPs and Tory ex-chancellor Ken Clarke rebelled.

The bill now faces further scrutiny in the Commons and the House of Lords before it can become law.

The prime minister has set a deadline of 31 March for invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, getting official talks with the EU started. The bill returns to the Commons next week.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38833883

Looking up the European Union Bill, I found this:

The European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill 2017-19 is the planned name of a future bill of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that proposes to enshrine any Withdrawal Agreement between the UK and the EU in domestic law. The Withdrawal Agreement is the subject of ongoing and future Brexit negotiations and won't be detailed until the negotiations are completed.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_(Withdrawal_Agreement)_Bill_2017%E2%80%9319

I was about to hit submit, but the EUB just triggered another point made in that thread: it was in response to someone on Twitter saying that MPs voted overwhelmingly to leave. Whoever it was corrected that comment: in Parliament, MPs never voted to leave. They voted for the EUB.


NB: There's more on that Wiki page:

Objectives:
    Enshrine the Withdrawal Agreement between the UK and the EU in domestic law including any financial settlement and agreement on citizens’ rights[1]
    Legislate the details of an implementation period[1]
    Allow for changes to EU law to be legally binding in the UK
    Allow for Parliamentary scrutiny and oversight of the process via primary legislation, instead of secondary legislation via the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill
    Amend the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to save the effect of the European Communities Act 1972 during the transition period.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 08:59:55 AM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: Brexit and Moral Obligations.
« Reply #179 on: February 28, 2019, 09:08:42 AM »
Two separate issues...

1) What is done with the money in the economy, how it is distributed, who it helps.

2) How much money is in the economy.

Brexit has a serious impact on the second which in turn prevents adjustment to the first.

And here was me thinking we'd never ever agree on anything. ;)