Author Topic: “Neglect or failure in their duty”  (Read 1001 times)

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Offline Faithlilly

“Neglect or failure in their duty”
« on: February 04, 2019, 03:33:43 PM »
We were informed in the Sun yesterday that an internal investigation had been carried out against three officers in the OG team for “neglect or failure in their duty”. The allegation was certainly taken seriously as the investigation shows and it is obvious it was based on specific information. It is also obvious that someone isn’t happy with the way OG is proceeding.

Two questions.

1. In the context of OG what would constitute an allegation of  “neglect or failure in their duty”?
2. Who would be in a position to lodge a complaint of this nature ?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 04:14:45 PM by Faithlilly »
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline jassi

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 04:33:00 PM »
Obviously aimed at named officers so it would need to be somebody 'in the know', who had knowledge of of OG team make-up.
Not just any old internet troll  8(0(*
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 04:54:31 PM »
Obviously aimed at named officers so it would need to be somebody 'in the know', who had knowledge of of OG team make-up.
Not just any old internet troll  8(0(*

Exactly jassi and be aware of the steps being taken by the investigation team. You can’t lodge a complaint of that nature without specific information, information only those close to the enquiry would be privy to.


Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2019, 05:42:33 PM »
 Neglect and failure of duty sound like classic sceptic accusations to me.  We knownthe names of at least three police personnel involved in the investigation so why are are people getting so hyper excited about this report (which is lets remember in the Sun, Faithlilly’s least favourite paper in the whole wide world). 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline jassi

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2019, 05:51:23 PM »
Neglect and failure of duty sound like classic sceptic accusations to me.  We knownthe names of at least three police personnel involved in the investigation so why are are people getting so hyper excited about this report (which is lets remember in the Sun, Faithlilly’s least favourite paper in the whole wide world).

Do we? 2 named DCIs, though not at the same time. Who else is known to have been actively involved in the investigation.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   11 years and still no solution.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 05:57:20 PM »
Do we? 2 named DCIs, though not at the same time. Who else is known to have been actively involved in the investigation.
Redwood, Wall, Rowley, also the head honcho of the Met whose name escapes me, prior to Dick.  Also if you contact the Met with information about the case are you not given an officer’s name? 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Faithlilly

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 06:24:36 PM »
Do we? 2 named DCIs, though not at the same time. Who else is known to have been actively involved in the investigation.

There’s Wall and Redwood, if we’re going back that far. Houghen-Howe (?) And Rowley were heads of the Met so not actually part of OG.

Further don’t you think that if any sceptic group had actually, by some miracle, managed to instigate an investigation they wouldn’t be crowing about it like kings of the dung heap ?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:10:48 AM by Faithlilly »
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 06:51:09 PM »
There’s Wall and Redwood, if we’re going back that far. Houghen-Howe (?) And Rowley were heads of the Met so not actually part of OG.

Further don’t you think that if any sceptic group had actually, by some miracle, managed to instigate an investigation they wouldn’t be crowing about it like kings of the dung heap ?
No, because once again they failed to achieve anything. 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Faithlilly

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 07:16:46 PM »
So no crowing by the usual suspects when they managed, after multiple tries, to instigate an investigation into OG ( who knew at that point it would end in failure ? ). No interest in the minutiae of OG from the public

Then who exactly made the complaint that launched the investigation? The parents ? It would certainly explain why they didn’t want to give any interviews last May. There would be no avoiding awkward questions about OG if they had. Imagine claiming your faith in OG when you were having three of its officers investigated. I would have thought even the McCanns would baulk at that.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 08:01:27 PM »
So no crowing by the usual suspects when they managed, after multiple tries, to instigate an investigation into OG ( who knew at that point it would end in failure ? ). No interest in the minutiae of OG from the public

Then who exactly made the complaint that launched the investigation? The parents ? It would certainly explain why they didn’t want to give any interviews last May. There would be no avoiding awkward questions about OG if they had. Imagine claiming your faith in OG when you were having three of its officers investigated. I would have thought even the McCanns would baulk at that.
Fantasist.
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 08:30:38 PM »
fantasist could be getting too personal  - keep it to the writing not the poster please.
What are you doing to find Madeleine?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 08:35:08 PM »
fantasist could be getting too personal  - keep it to the writing not the poster please.
The poster seems to have made up her mind that the parents have complained about OG but she is speculating as there is no evidence whatsoever to support her belief. 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Faithlilly

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 10:46:18 PM »
A circumstantial case can certainly be made that it was the parents who lodged the complaint.

They had knowledge of the names and actions of the members of the investigative team, not the kind of knowledge which would be known by either sceptic groups or the general public.

As victims they would certainly be taken seriously if dissatisfied with actions taken by officers, not the kind of consideration that would be afforded to either a complaint from another sceptic or the general public.

The parents have previously tried to bring the police to heel with their case against the Leicestershire police so have form for this kind of behaviour.

Win or lose the whole conduct of OG would be undermined, a valuable card to have at any subsequent trial.

It would also explain the parents reluctance to be interviewed in May or directly make any mention of OG in their public blogs.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 11:18:34 PM by Faithlilly »
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 11:21:28 PM »
A circumstantial case can certainly be made that it was the parents who lodged the complaint.

They had knowledge of the names and actions of the members of the investigative team, not the kind of knowledge which would be known by either sceptic groups or the general public.

As victims they would certainly be taken seriously if dissatisfied with actions taken by officers, not the kind of consideration that would be afforded to either a complaint from another sceptic or the general public.

The parents have previously tried to bring the police to heel with their case against the Leicestershire police so have form for this kind of behaviour.

Win or lose the whole conduct of OG would be undermined, a valuable card to have at any subsequent trial.
1) How is the conduct of Operation Grange undermined by complaints (made by anyone) that are not upheld?
2) If you are an armchair detective who contacts Operation Grange and insists on sharing “valuable information” who takes the details and do they remain anonymous? 
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: “Neglect or failure in their duty”
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 10:25:43 AM »
There’s Wall and Redwood, if we’re going back that far. Houghen-Howe (?) And Rowley were heads of the Met so not actually part of OG.

Further don’t you think that if any sceptic group had actually, by some miracle, managed to instigate an investigation they wouldn’t be crowing about it like kings of the dung heap ?
Here’s another name to add to your list of named police personnel attached to Op. Grange

“Deputy Commissioner Martin Hewitt also revealed that Portuguese police have finally acted on formal requests from Scotland Yard and are expected to begin “operational activities” in the very near future.
Mr Hewitt would not be drawn on whether that would mean people brought in for questioning or arrests, but he said he hoped British officers would be involved on the ground.”
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith