Author Topic: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal  (Read 3219 times)

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Online Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 12:40:33 PM »
I believe it was established at her trial. Nigel’s site had the information.

the only source I have ever seen is from the lawyer representing those who were accused of her torture...every other report says the confession was beaten out of her

MST : No, about defendants sent to a court of justice after confessing to crimes made under beating, which is obvious, I cannot accept that, therefore, I suspect.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7483.0

Miguel souse Tavares....a Portuguese journalist...he should know the truth
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 12:43:35 PM by Davel »
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Online Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 12:45:08 PM »
MST : It was proved that she was beaten, that was judged also that she was beaten hard..
GA : Who was condemned?
MST : You were condemned with a suspended sanction, suspended not for beating her but for making false declarations about the case...   
GA : How did I make false declarations ? How do we come to this ? I'm going to explain it quickly... 

MST : There was a judicial sentence, I'm guided by the sentence.
GA : No, I was heard always as a witness and one day (inaudible)...
MST : Let me ask you a question, do you think that in this country many people believes that Leonor Cipriano killed her daughter ?
GA : I think so.
MST : Very few people, Gonçalo Amaral, very few people.
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Eleanor

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 12:48:57 PM »
I believe it was established at her trial. Nigel’s site had the information.

I still haven't seen this.  And I do not believe it.  Why beat her up if she had confessed already?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 12:54:42 PM »
I still haven't seen this.  And I do not believe it.  Why beat her up if she had confessed already?
And even if it's true that she was beaten up after the confession she was clearly surrounded by very aggressive threatening men, who wouldn't crack under that sort of intimidation and  pressure?
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Faithlilly

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 01:01:31 PM »
I still haven't seen this.  And I do not believe it.  Why beat her up if she had confessed already?

Exactly.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Online Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 02:31:47 PM »
Exactly.

But she hadnt already confessed
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Faithlilly

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2019, 02:40:20 PM »
But she hadnt already confessed

Yes she had.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Eleanor

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2019, 02:59:12 PM »
Yes she had.

Produce The Proof.  Or I shall have to start Deleting.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2019, 03:28:06 PM »
Produce The Proof.  Or I shall have to start Deleting.

I’m sure you’ll be nothing less than fair.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Eleanor

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2019, 03:30:53 PM »
I’m sure you’ll be nothing less than fair.

Thank You, no, I won't be less than fair.  But this Board requires Cites.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2019, 03:38:33 PM »
I'm still looking forward to being told why so many sceptics are convinced of the Ciprianos' guilt when there was no evidence except their confessions, physically beaten out of them or not.
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Faithlilly

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2019, 03:50:58 PM »
Facts
 

From news reports of the trial.


‘Leonor confessed the crime on the 13th of October and alleged being beaten a day later.
 
Leonor Cipriano, confessed all of the facts related to her daughter's murder to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa. Leonor's brother, Joao Cipriano, had previously confessed the crimes a few days before, on the 8 of October.’


‘The PJ inspector stated that on the night of the alleged aggressions, on the 14th of October 2004, he was inside the building of the PJ directory in Faro, accompanied by Joao Cipriano, Leonor's brother, with whom he had been carrying out diligences within the Joana case.’

I’d appreciate a reinstatement of my posts.
Moral Guilt
Detractors of the work of our British Police in bringing criminals to justice generally ignore the important distinction between moral proof and legal evidence of guilt. In not a few cases that are popularly classed with 'unsolved mysteries of crime,' the offender is known, but evidence is wanting. If, for example, in- a recent murder case of special notoriety and interest,* certain human remains had not been found in a cellar, a great crime would have been catalogued among `Police failures'; and yet, even without the evidence which sent the murderer to the gallows, the moral proof of his guilt would have been full and clear.
Robert Anderson

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2019, 04:01:43 PM »
Facts
 

From news reports of the trial.


‘Leonor confessed the crime on the 13th of October and alleged being beaten a day later.
 
Leonor Cipriano, confessed all of the facts related to her daughter's murder to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa. Leonor's brother, Joao Cipriano, had previously confessed the crimes a few days before, on the 8 of October.’


‘The PJ inspector stated that on the night of the alleged aggressions, on the 14th of October 2004, he was inside the building of the PJ directory in Faro, accompanied by Joao Cipriano, Leonor's brother, with whom he had been carrying out diligences within the Joana case.’

I’d appreciate a reinstatement of my posts.
Nothing but a link to the signed and dated confession will do I'm afraid, sorry.
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline barrier

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 04:06:13 PM »
Nothing but a link to the signed and dated confession will do I'm afraid, sorry.

I must have missed the announcement where you get to decide what is it what will do.
Neddie Seagoon : [discovering Eccles in the coal cellar]  What are you doing here?
Eccles : Everybody's gotta be somewhere...