Author Topic: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal  (Read 3752 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2019, 04:19:40 PM »
I must have missed the announcement where you get to decide what is it what will do.
Oh dear, it was a tongue in cheek comment, I should have put one of these  @)(++(* at the end for those who thought there'd been an announcement putting me in charge  @)(++(*

That said, do Faithlilly's quotes prove anything in your opinion?
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2019, 04:26:56 PM »
Facts
 

From news reports of the trial.


‘Leonor confessed the crime on the 13th of October and alleged being beaten a day later.
 
Leonor Cipriano, confessed all of the facts related to her daughter's murder to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa. Leonor's brother, Joao Cipriano, had previously confessed the crimes a few days before, on the 8 of October.’


‘The PJ inspector stated that on the night of the alleged aggressions, on the 14th of October 2004, he was inside the building of the PJ directory in Faro, accompanied by Joao Cipriano, Leonor's brother, with whom he had been carrying out diligences within the Joana case.’

I’d appreciate a reinstatement of my posts.

You need to provide a link to show where this has come from... Otherwise it's worthless... I have provided a cite to show a Portuguese journalist telling amaral she was beaten in custody to confess... Why doesn't anaral deny this... Because I would say it's obviously  true
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2019, 04:37:30 PM »
Facts
 

From news reports of the trial.


‘Leonor confessed the crime on the 13th of October and alleged being beaten a day later.
 
Leonor Cipriano, confessed all of the facts related to her daughter's murder to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa. Leonor's brother, Joao Cipriano, had previously confessed the crimes a few days before, on the 8 of October.’


‘The PJ inspector stated that on the night of the alleged aggressions, on the 14th of October 2004, he was inside the building of the PJ directory in Faro, accompanied by Joao Cipriano, Leonor's brother, with whom he had been carrying out diligences within the Joana case.’

I’d appreciate a reinstatement of my posts.

Leonora took the option to silence at her trial so your reports are obviously  not genuine
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Sunny

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2019, 04:44:18 PM »
Leonora took the option to silence at her trial so your reports are obviously  not genuine

But her trial wasn't on 13th October 2004 her trial was later.   This is when she confessed not when she stood trial.
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

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Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2019, 04:49:12 PM »
But her trial wasn't on 13th October 2004 her trial was later.   This is when she confessed not when she stood trial.

She confessed after being beaten...
Faiths statement comes from the trial of the PJ accused of torture... As I understand the statement was made by the lawyer for the PJ officers accused of torture and is unsubstantiated..... It's pure fantasy IMO... Faith needs to provide a cite to show this quote has any validity.. I'm quite sure it has none
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:59:50 PM by Davel »
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2019, 05:08:54 PM »
But her trial wasn't on 13th October 2004 her trial was later.   This is when she confessed not when she stood trial.
Sunny, are you quite sure there was no miscarriage of justice in this case?
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2019, 05:13:09 PM »
But her trial wasn't on 13th October 2004 her trial was later.   This is when she confessed not when she stood trial.
Please provide a cite to support your claim she confessed on 13 oct
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Eleanor

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2019, 05:15:51 PM »
Facts
 

From news reports of the trial.


‘Leonor confessed the crime on the 13th of October and alleged being beaten a day later.
 
Leonor Cipriano, confessed all of the facts related to her daughter's murder to the PJ on the 13th of October 2004, in the presence of her lawyer, who at the time was Célia Costa. Leonor's brother, Joao Cipriano, had previously confessed the crimes a few days before, on the 8 of October.’


‘The PJ inspector stated that on the night of the alleged aggressions, on the 14th of October 2004, he was inside the building of the PJ directory in Faro, accompanied by Joao Cipriano, Leonor's brother, with whom he had been carrying out diligences within the Joana case.’

I’d appreciate a reinstatement of my posts.

Sorry.  This won't do for me, I'm afraid.  There is no proof of who said that or under what circumstances.

It sounds like a Witness Statement, although I can't be sure of that.  And whoever he is he could be twisting facts.

I deleted just one post of yours where you said, "Delete Away."

Offline misty

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2019, 05:50:29 PM »
Another Portugal bashing thread Misty.  Did you know there are serious miscarriages of justice in the UK too?

Here is a list of some of them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases#United_Kingdom

It makes a change from a McCann-bashing thread, doesn't it? I'd ask for a link to the list of recorded  miscarriages of justice in Portugal but there doesn't seem to be one. 100% perfection or evidence of endemic corruption?

Anyway, I was wondering what sort of pressure was applied to this young student which made him not only confess to but actually re-enact a crime he hadn't committed?
Incidentally, the guilty neighbours of this victim had murdered 2 other women.

Offline Sunny

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2019, 06:26:02 PM »
Please provide a cite to support your claim she confessed on 13 oct


He continued, “I have no reason not to believe my colleagues” and added Leonor Cipriano confessed her involvement in her daughter’s death on October 13th.


http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/joana-case-photos-could-have-been-doctored-says-it-expert/25624

I see on this link that at the trial an IT specialist believed that Leonor Cipriano's photgraphs were manipulated. I agree they do look so.

I do believe that Leonor Cipriano and her brother were guilty as charged and Joana died at their hands.

Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2019, 06:34:07 PM »

He continued, “I have no reason not to believe my colleagues” and added Leonor Cipriano confessed her involvement in her daughter’s death on October 13th.


http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/joana-case-photos-could-have-been-doctored-says-it-expert/25624

I see on this link that at the trial an IT specialist believed that Leonor Cipriano's photgraphs were manipulated. I agree they do look so.

I do believe that Leonor Cipriano and her brother were guilty as charged and Joana died at their hands.

So your cite is a PJ inspector... Marquis Blom... That's all you have.... One if the pj who were, accused of torture... How do you know he is telling the truth..
The court decided the PJ lied when they claimed cipriano fell
Down the stairs... So they had already lied... I would say this is just another lie to cover up their torture
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 06:36:54 PM by Davel »
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline Sunny

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2019, 06:36:33 PM »
So your cite is a PJ inspector... Marquis Blom... That's all you have.... As he was supporting the PJ... Who were, accused of torture... How do you know he is telling the truth..
The court decided the PJ lied when they claimed cipriano fell
Down the stairs... So they had already lied... I would say this is just another lie to cover up their torture

I have given a named person who said she confessed on 13th October 2004. Give me someone (named) who said she didn't.

Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.

From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.

Moderators and Editors take note!

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2019, 06:39:18 PM »
I have given a named person who said she confessed on 13th October 2004. Give me someone (named) who said she didn't.

You've given the name of a man accused of extracting the confession by torture... One of the accused... Who were shown by the court to have lied.... So there is nothing apart from this to show she confessed before being tortured
UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED ALL POSTS ARE MY OPINION

Offline misty

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2019, 06:41:00 PM »
I have given a named person who said she confessed on 13th October 2004. Give me someone (named) who said she didn't.

If Leonor had already confessed, why did the PJ need the "big guys" down from Lisbon to help out?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2019, 06:41:05 PM »

He continued, “I have no reason not to believe my colleagues” and added Leonor Cipriano confessed her involvement in her daughter’s death on October 13th.


http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/joana-case-photos-could-have-been-doctored-says-it-expert/25624

I see on this link that at the trial an IT specialist believed that Leonor Cipriano's photgraphs were manipulated. I agree they do look so.

I do believe that Leonor Cipriano and her brother were guilty as charged and Joana died at their hands.
Why?
"I have hated the way social media has facilitated the abuse of Gerry and Kate McCann, and found it hard to fathom the insensitivity of all those who have posted accusations about them“ - David James Smith