Author Topic: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal  (Read 6402 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2019, 09:48:20 PM »
Leonor is still insisting that she is innocent.

So is Russell Bishop and I imagine most other convicted murderers.

Offline Brietta

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2019, 10:00:36 PM »
I strongly recommend you download the attached document then run it through google translate (select "documents" then link to the file on your computer). That will help you see there was no confession on 13th October & certain service information from the 14th Oct written by Cristovao shows record of confession. It's a long read but worth it.

I will read it Misty ... where is it though?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline misty

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2019, 10:17:57 PM »
I will read it Misty ... where is it though?

Sorry, now added. Don't know what happened first time round.

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2019, 08:17:24 AM »
I strongly recommend you download the attached document then run it through google translate (select "documents" then link to the file on your computer). That will help you see there was no confession on 13th October & certain service information from the 14th Oct written by Cristovao shows record of confession. It's a long read but worth it.
http://home.iscte-iul.pt/~apad/ACED_juristas/maddietrab_ficheiros/Acordao%20Leonor%20Cipriano%20contra%20Goncalo%20e%20outros.%2022Maio2009.pdf

This is a very good read... An official Portuguese court documents which records...

No mention of any confession on the 13th
Confession and torture on the 14th
Leonora was assaulted by agents of the, PJ... But they could not be identified
ThePJ officers claims Leonora, threw herself down the, steps... Which the court did not accept
Amaral was guilty of false witness... Well worth a, read
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Brietta

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2019, 09:25:12 AM »
This is a very good read... An official Portuguese court documents which records...

No mention of any confession on the 13th
Confession and torture on the 14th
Leonora was assaulted by agents of the, PJ... But they could not be identified
ThePJ officers claims Leonora, threw herself down the, steps... Which the court did not accept
Amaral was guilty of false witness... Well worth a, read

I think the "confession" the day before the alleged unfortunate episode with the police station stair is nothing short of fabrication.  Were that not so why no mention of it during legal proceedings in court.

Due to the courage of the prison governor who refused to collude that the bruised and battered Leonor the police returned to her prison was the victim of irate prisoners not the PJ in whose custody she had been; but instead had photos taken of her injuries and put the truth on record as a result.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2019, 10:38:07 AM »
This is a very good read... An official Portuguese court documents which records...

No mention of any confession on the 13th
Confession and torture on the 14th
Leonora was assaulted by agents of the, PJ... But they could not be identified
ThePJ officers claims Leonora, threw herself down the, steps... Which the court did not accept
Amaral was guilty of false witness... Well worth a, read
I don’t expect it will make any difference to those who are convinced of Cipriano ‘s guilt despite the complete absence of any evidence apart from a very dodgy confession that was withdrawn within 24 hours and in which the defendant was bludgeoned by police.

Offline jassi

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #81 on: February 10, 2019, 10:53:55 AM »
Indeed why should they? It adds nothing to Madeleine's disappearance or her chances of being found.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline faithlilly

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #82 on: February 10, 2019, 11:20:10 AM »
Indeed why should they? It adds nothing to Madeleine's disappearance or her chances of being found.

Whether Cipriano was beaten before her confession, and her lawyer confirmed that she wasn’t, her brother João certainly wasn’t, as we can see from the reconstitution video, and gave a very fluid reconstruction of the killing of Joana.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2019, 11:32:39 AM »
Indeed why should they? It adds nothing to Madeleine's disappearance or her chances of being found.
It is relevant because if the Ciprianos actually were not responsible for the disappearance of a little girl shortly before the disappearance of another little girl in the same area then who was?

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2019, 11:34:27 AM »
Whether Cipriano was beaten before her confession, and her lawyer confirmed that she wasn’t, her brother João certainly wasn’t, as we can see from the reconstitution video, and gave a very fluid reconstruction of the killing of Joana.
I don’t suppose anyone has ever been convicted on the strength of their “very fluid” but completely false account of a crime they never committed?

Offline jassi

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2019, 11:34:48 AM »
Straw-clutching at its best - IMO
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2019, 11:44:24 AM »
Straw-clutching at its best - IMO
What is?  Can you please tell me what convinces you that the Ciprianos are guilty?

Offline Davel

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2019, 11:47:23 AM »
Whether Cipriano was beaten before her confession, and her lawyer confirmed that she wasn’t, her brother João certainly wasn’t, as we can see from the reconstitution video, and gave a very fluid reconstruction of the killing of Joana.

that simply is not true...the fact that you are relying on a lie to support your argument shows its weakness
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2019, 11:51:50 AM »
A long but fascinating article about false confessions for anyone who believes that “a very fluid” reconstruction means someone is giving an accurate account of their actions

https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/false-confessions

Offline jassi

Re: A proven miscarriage of justice in Portugal
« Reply #89 on: February 10, 2019, 11:53:08 AM »
What is?  Can you please tell me what convinces you that the Ciprianos are guilty?

I don't have any opinion on them, other than it has nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance.
They are of no interest to me.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.