Author Topic: Mayflower 400th Anniversary  (Read 273 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« on: April 27, 2020, 05:48:40 PM »
Is it wrong to teach children about the Mayflower as part of events to celebrate the 400th Anniversary ?  Or is it only OK to teach children about the Mayflower within the context of how racist and colonialist the Pilgrims were?  Is it important to make British children feel embarrassed and ashamed of their forefathers’ colonial ventures into other lands?

Teachers refuse to mark Mayflower anniversary
The Mayflower, depicted in Plymouth harbour in 1620
The Mayflower, depicted in Plymouth harbour in 1620
BARNEY BURSTEIN/GETTY IMAGES
Teachers are calling for lessons to mark the 400th anniversary of the Mayflower’s voyage to the New World to be withdrawn, claiming they whitewash a “colonial land grab” and the pilgrims’ links to slavery.

A row has blown up over how to remember the 102 Puritans who sailed from Plymouth in 1620 to start a new life free from religious persecution. The Mayflower’s passengers and crew are the ancestors of more than 30 million US citizens.

The Puritans and a 30-strong crew took 66 days to cross the Atlantic before settling in what is now Plymouth, Massachusetts.

Commemorations are being organised by Mayflower 400, a UK body working with counterparts in America and Holland, with sponsors including the Arts Council, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, Plymouth city council and the Royal Navy.

Mayflower 400 has created resources for children to learn about the historic trip in the classroom, on the internet and at 12 UK sites.


One leading historian, Andrew Roberts, who is not affiliated with the group, said the pilgrims were part of the political tradition that was to promote free speech and democracy. “All hail to the Mayflower adventurers and their doughty descendants,” he said.

Yet critics have accused the bosses of Mayflower 400 of buying into “the myth of the Mayflower”. Some want the education programme scrapped and rewritten.

Members of the National Education Union (NEU), the biggest teaching union, with 450,000 members, are calling for the material to be “withdrawn and reviewed”. A motion to its annual conference, now postponed because of the coronavirus, claims Mayflower 400’s “colonial narrative” risks undermining efforts to make children aware of the dark side of colonialism.

Huw-Tindall Jones, a humanities teacher and secretary of the NEU Plymouth branch, which brought the motion, said: “The educational resources provided by Mayflower 400 should also reference the negative impacts of colonialism, such as slavery, in an age-appropriate manner.”

Roberts, however, said: “Americans today enjoy the blessings of the English tongue, Magna Carta-based rights and all the other benefits of the English and Scottish enlightenment.”

Mayflower 400 said that it “aims to tell all aspects of the story. We have worked with the Wampanoag tribal nation to ensure that they can tell it from their perspective.”

"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.
“I bet Christian Bruckner did it” Me

Offline Eleanor

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2020, 05:52:11 AM »

Where would The World be today without Colonialism?  It's a complex subject and I can only see it from my point of view.
Most of them have got their Countries back now and some of them aren't doing a very good job.  And it wasn't just Britain anyway

I do have a lot of sympathy for American Indians, but America was up for grabs in those days.  The Puritans were ignorant people doing their best to escape Religious Persecution and to survive.

India is a different story and look at the mess that they have made of it all.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2020, 08:43:23 PM »
I would add that I will not be ashamed  about anything my forefathers did just out of PC rhetoric!

The slave trade has not gone away, no sir, it is alive and well and thriving- thanks to the left wing socialists and celebrity wonderfulness. Under the guise of Asylum seeker-refugee-

 Many Africans  bringing their nieces as 'house keepers', Eastern Europeans bring  in 'farm workers', Chinese with their 'cooks and chefs' and Many women brought into this country as sex workers without pay secretaries and Administrators. And if that isn't sickening  we also welcome lone child sex slaves refugees, who just happen to have long lost 'uncles and Aunts' who love them dearly.

The Romans do not say sorry neither do the Egyptians for their world domination days. What about the Ottoman empire , the viking sand   Gengis KHAN Ancestors...

All slavery in any era should be discussed openly and honestly and in context!
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2020, 01:07:45 AM »
I would add that I will not be ashamed  about anything my forefathers did just out of PC rhetoric!

The slave trade has not gone away, no sir, it is alive and well and thriving- thanks to the left wing socialists and celebrity wonderfulness. Under the guise of Asylum seeker-refugee-

 Many Africans  bringing their nieces as 'house keepers', Eastern Europeans bring  in 'farm workers', Chinese with their 'cooks and chefs' and Many women brought into this country as sex workers without pay secretaries and Administrators. And if that isn't sickening  we also welcome lone child sex slaves refugees, who just happen to have long lost 'uncles and Aunts' who love them dearly.

The Romans do not say sorry neither do the Egyptians for their world domination days. What about the Ottoman empire , the viking sand   Gengis KHAN Ancestors...

All slavery in any era should be discussed openly and honestly and in context!

The modern day slave trade thrives because there is money to be made from poor, desperate people. That’s capitalism for you.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2020, 07:33:32 AM »
I would add that I will not be ashamed  about anything my forefathers did just out of PC rhetoric!

The slave trade has not gone away, no sir, it is alive and well and thriving- thanks to the left wing socialists and celebrity wonderfulness. Under the guise of Asylum seeker-refugee-

 Many Africans  bringing their nieces as 'house keepers', Eastern Europeans bring  in 'farm workers', Chinese with their 'cooks and chefs' and Many women brought into this country as sex workers without pay secretaries and Administrators. And if that isn't sickening  we also welcome lone child sex slaves refugees, who just happen to have long lost 'uncles and Aunts' who love them dearly.

The Romans do not say sorry neither do the Egyptians for their world domination days. What about the Ottoman empire , the viking sand   Gengis KHAN Ancestors...

All slavery in any era should be discussed openly and honestly and in context!
Of course.  And the most enslaved people in the world currently are those living under authoritarian socialist dictatorships, such as in North Korea.   But this is slightly off topic.  It’s about whether we have a duty to instill shame and disgust about our history into our children, as the Left clearly believes is their duty.

"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.
“I bet Christian Bruckner did it” Me

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2020, 11:44:53 AM »
Of course.  And the most enslaved people in the world currently are those living under authoritarian socialist dictatorships, such as in North Korea.   But this is slightly off topic.  It’s about whether we have a duty to instill shame and disgust about our history into our children, as the Left clearly believes is their duty.

I think the answer is that children should be given balanced objective information which explains but neither glorifies or denigrates historical occurances. I've been a little uncomfortable about 'celebrating' VE Day. I would have preferred 'remembering' because the ordinary people of Germany suffered too.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2020, 11:54:29 AM »
I think the answer is that children should be given balanced objective information which explains but neither glorifies or denigrates historical occurances. I've been a little uncomfortable about 'celebrating' VE Day. I would have preferred 'remembering' because the ordinary people of Germany suffered too.
Surely the end of war is cause for celebration, even for ordinary Germans?  Do you think it was wrong back in 1945 to celebrate the occasion in the way we did?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.
“I bet Christian Bruckner did it” Me

Offline G-Unit

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2020, 12:02:07 PM »
Surely the end of war is cause for celebration, even for ordinary Germans?  Do you think it was wrong back in 1945 to celebrate the occasion in the way we did?

No, it was fine to celebrate in 1945, but I didn't think using the word celebrate was appropriate in 2020. Just my opinion.
No-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance because belief without evidence is useless.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2020, 12:05:19 PM »
No, it was fine to celebrate in 1945, but I didn't think using the word celebrate was appropriate in 2020. Just my opinion.
OK.  Well our neighbourhood celebrated it by having a cups of tea and cake in our front gardens at 4pm on the day.  Apologies to all Germans for any offence caused.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.
“I bet Christian Bruckner did it” Me

Offline Eleanor

Re: Mayflower 400th Anniversary
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2020, 12:16:43 PM »
No, it was fine to celebrate in 1945, but I didn't think using the word celebrate was appropriate in 2020. Just my opinion.

I lived through The War and I am never going to forget it.  Nor will I ever forget the exposure of The Death Camps.
I can't be asked to worry about how Germany feels.