Author Topic: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?  (Read 4613 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2019, 10:35:17 AM »
The thing is though, she voluntarily left the UK to join a terrorist State in the form of ISIS or Daesh.  Furthermore, as she joined our enemies during a state of war she has committed treason and is a traitor. I'm quite sure those who are supposed to run our justice department in Whitehall or wherever they hang out can work that one out for themselves or am I wrong?

Even those who went to fight haven't been charged with treason on their retirn AFAIK, but I don't know why.
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Offline John

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2019, 10:45:53 AM »
Citizenship can be removed make ng someone stateless as Ling as they are eligible to apply for citizenship of another country..
I would imagine her parents have, a nationality she would be entitled to... Her husband is dutch... She us eligible... So legally her citizenship can be removed

Good point.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2019, 10:47:45 AM »
Citizenship can be removed make ng someone stateless as Ling as they are eligible to apply for citizenship of another country..
I would imagine her parents have, a nationality she would be entitled to... Her husband is dutch... She us eligible... So legally her citizenship can be removed

So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?

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Offline John

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2019, 10:48:53 AM »
Even those who went to fight haven't been charged with treason on their retirn AFAIK, but I don't know why.

Many went to fight and help the Kurds when they were being slaughtered by IS. They will be allowed to return without prosecution.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2019, 10:50:23 AM »
As neither of us are there, we don't know, do we? All I said was that she may be being careful what she says avout them.

Decisions to prosecute and the outcome are matters of law, not of will.
And she may be lying, absolutely loving it out there and desperate to come back the UK in order to take part in some future plot to assassinate the Queen, and the baby thing is a lie.  We just don't know do we?  Better safe than sorry IMO. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2019, 10:53:34 AM »
So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?
What did International Law have to say about Guantanamo Bay?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Online Davel

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2019, 10:58:18 AM »
So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?

I don't think anything... Ms Weston... An immigration barrister does... From the BBC link


But Amanda Weston, a barrister who practises in immigration law, told Law in Action the Home Office often waited until individuals were outside the UK before depriving them of their citizenship. Challenging the decision from abroad could be difficult, especially if issues of national security were involved.

Ms Weston said the home secretary could not take away a person's citizenship if that would leave the individual stateless.

But the barrister said it was not necessary for the person to hold another nationality before losing UK citizenship, provided they were deemed eligible to seek a passport from another country.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2019, 11:04:04 AM »
And she may be lying, absolutely loving it out there and desperate to come back the UK in order to take part in some future plot to assassinate the Queen, and the baby thing is a lie.  We just don't know do we?  Better safe than sorry IMO.

It's a matter of law, not opinion. As I understand it she can't be prevented from entering the UK if she turns up here.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2019, 11:16:10 AM »
It's a matter of law, not opinion. As I understand it she can't be prevented from entering the UK if she turns up here.
You were giving your opinion that she was saying things because ISIS were threatening her.  I was giving my opinion that she might be lying.  If you can give yours, why can I not give mine without you pulling the rug from under the discussion?
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2019, 12:42:44 PM »
I don't think anything... Ms Weston... An immigration barrister does... From the BBC link


But Amanda Weston, a barrister who practises in immigration law, told Law in Action the Home Office often waited until individuals were outside the UK before depriving them of their citizenship. Challenging the decision from abroad could be difficult, especially if issues of national security were involved.

Ms Weston said the home secretary could not take away a person's citizenship if that would leave the individual stateless.

But the barrister said it was not necessary for the person to hold another nationality before losing UK citizenship, provided they were deemed eligible to seek a passport from another country.

We don't know if she's eligible for another nationality though, do we?  I expect that would need to be confirmed before any action was taken.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online Davel

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2019, 01:22:49 PM »
We don't know if she's eligible for another nationality though, do we?  I expect that would need to be confirmed before any action was taken.

Yes we do
Her son does not have a uk passport...he can apply for uk citizenship...
the point I am making is a uk citizen can be stripped of citizenship...i  am fairly sure her father was not born in the UK....

British citizenship if she is not a dual national, as that would leave her stateless, which is contrary to international law. However, the home secretary has been advised that because Begumís mother holds a Bangladeshi passport, he may be able to.


looks like the Home Office understand the law
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 01:44:28 PM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Brietta

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2019, 02:05:19 PM »
The thing is though, she voluntarily left the UK to join a terrorist State in the form of ISIS or Daesh.  Furthermore, as she joined our enemies during a state of war she has committed treason and is a traitor. I'm quite sure those who are supposed to run our justice department in Whitehall or wherever they hang out can work that one out for themselves or am I wrong?
I think that may be a part of the problem, John: who exactly are our enemies?  I think we have very many strange bedfellows over in that part of the world as suits the exigencies of the men in faraway lands playing war games ... only with real people.

If I recall correctly the genesis of our present bout of meddling on the fringes of 'tyrant regime change' was aimed at removing Assad which left a vacuum in huge areas of Syria which IS opportunistically claimed as its Caliphate.

The caliphate as an entity hasn't lasted long but the individual units of which it was composed are still in existence and getting ready to lash out like a wounded animal to bring their ideology of death and destruction to their countries of origin while survivors they displaced in Syria etc. are returning to reclaim the civilised lives they once enjoyed.

That a child born, nurtured and educated in Britain could by the age of fifteen be so desensitised to all that is decent that describing viewing severed heads in trash bins without experiencing a qualm then or in retrospect must surely give us pause for thought.
These people were indoctrinated and radicalised while here and I think the challenge for us as a society is to prevent that happening to others now and in the future with returnees from the chaos they participated in perhaps being adopted as role models.

I think we are up against an ideology here ... so what is the best way to combat that?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline John

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2019, 01:53:20 PM »
I think that may be a part of the problem, John: who exactly are our enemies?  I think we have very many strange bedfellows over in that part of the world as suits the exigencies of the men in faraway lands playing war games ... only with real people.

If I recall correctly the genesis of our present bout of meddling on the fringes of 'tyrant regime change' was aimed at removing Assad which left a vacuum in huge areas of Syria which IS opportunistically claimed as its Caliphate.

The caliphate as an entity hasn't lasted long but the individual units of which it was composed are still in existence and getting ready to lash out like a wounded animal to bring their ideology of death and destruction to their countries of origin while survivors they displaced in Syria etc. are returning to reclaim the civilised lives they once enjoyed.

That a child born, nurtured and educated in Britain could by the age of fifteen be so desensitised to all that is decent that describing viewing severed heads in trash bins without experiencing a qualm then or in retrospect must surely give us pause for thought.
These people were indoctrinated and radicalised while here and I think the challenge for us as a society is to prevent that happening to others now and in the future with returnees from the chaos they participated in perhaps being adopted as role models.

I think we are up against an ideology here ... so what is the best way to combat that?

Well for starters I would ban any form of radcal Islam in the UK and deport all Muslims involved in such to a 'Muslim' country where they can spread the word of Allah to their heart's content without disrupting true Islam or our Christian values.

And some people wonder why these girls have grown up radicalised.

Independent Online SA
Published 15 February 2019


The father of Sharmeena Begum – the first teenager from the East London school to flee to Syria – urged the British government to forgive her.

Begum, who loved watching EastEnders and wanted to be a doctor, vanished in December 2015 at the age of 15.

Two months later she was joined in Raqqa, the self-styled capital of the Islamic State, by her best friends Kadiza Sultana, Amira Abase and Shamima Begum.

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Last night Sharmeena’s father Mohammad Uddin said the girls should be forgiven because they were radicalised and brainwashed. A local imam disagreed, sayinig they were "a danger to the community".

Mr Uddin, a restaurant worker, said: "They should all be allowed to come home. When they went to Syria they were not mature and they had been radicalised.

"They were not able to form their own opinions because they had been brainwashed. They went when they were very young and it’s not a big deal if they realise what they did is wrong. We should forgive them.

"If they do the wrong thing and then realise 'that was totally wrong' then they should be forgiven. If my daughter could come home and say 'forgive me', I would forgive her, obviously."

Abase’s father Hussen claimed that his daughter fled to Syria on a humanitarian mission after seeing images of civilians starving on the internet. He urged the government to let her and the others back in to the country, insisting: "They are no threat to us."

Mr Abase, 52, a security guard who came to Britain as a refugee from Ethiopia in 1999, said: "The girls should be allowed to come back. When they left the country they were teenagers. They [British officials] have to understand that.

"She is a naturally generous person. She saw in the media and on the internet [that] people over there are starving and I think she wanted to go and help. I have had no contact with her since she left. It’s been very hard on my family – I have a wife and two other children, aged 13 and 17. They all miss her. It was just a mistake that the girls left their families to go to a place like that."

Shamima Begum, the third surviving Bethnal Green schoolgirl, who is pregnant with her third child, was tracked down by The Times to a refugee camp in northern Syria. Her family echoed the words of Mr Uddin and Mr Abase and pleaded with the Government to allow her to return to the UK.

Her sister Renu told ITV News: "She’s pregnant and vulnerable, and it’s important we get her out of al-Hawl camp and home as soon as possible. We hope the British government will help us bring her home to us where she belongs. This news has come to us as a shock."

Tasnime Akunjee, the family’s lawyer, added: "The family do not want to comment, they are trying to process it at the moment."

Mr Akunjee said he was not sure if Begum’s family are considering whether they would take custody of her child if it was removed from her care on her return to the UK.

"That’s something they would have to work out for themselves," he said. "My role with the family is trying to bring Shamima back."

When asked if Shamima could be prosecuted, he said: ‘The question would be has she committed any offences? It depends on the evidence there is of her activities.

"These girls were children that were groomed and once someone is out there it is difficult to try to come back ... sometimes it can be lethal."

Mr Uddin issued an emotional plea to his daughter, saying: ‘All I want is for you to come home. I last heard from Sharmeena two or three months ago.

"She sent me a WhatsApp message. She said: 'I’m okay, how are you?' But by the time I saw the message I couldn’t contact her back, the number wasn’t going through. I think she [sent messages] from internet cafes. She hasn’t told me she wants to come home or anything, just a few messages."

The family of Sultana, who is believed to have been killed by a Russian airstrike on Raqqa in 2016, did not want to comment.

East London community leaders in the area warned against letting the girls return. Moulana Malik, the imam at the Baitul Aman mosque and cultural centre in Bethnal Green, said: "For the peace of the country we think that for all types of criminal people we don’t want them to come back into the community or at large.

"They are a danger. They think bad things – their views are not in line with the peace of the community. We think the girls were brainwashed. Online and here as well, some people may have communicated bad thoughts to them. They are a danger for the community."

Mr Abase himself came under fire after it emerged that he had been part of a flag-burning mob outside the US embassy in London in 2012.

Also at the rally were hate cleric Anjem Choudary and Michael Adebowale, one of the killers of Fusilier Lee Rigby. Mr Abase admitted going to two further rallies, with his impressionable daughter in tow.

The mother of the white British Islamic convert known as ‘Jihadi Jack’ joined the calls for Shamima Begum to be allowed back into Britain. Sally Letts, 55, said at her Oxford home: "Of course she should allowed back. She was a child, she was groomed and abused and now they want to judge her as an adult!"

Jack Letts, 22, went to IS territory and was captured two years ago by Kurdish fighters. He is awaiting trial in northern Syria.

Letts denies joining the terror group and his parents deny three charges of financially aiding terrorism. They are due to go on trial at the Old Bailey in May They allege Letts went to the region for "religious and humanitarian reasons".


https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/families-say-brainwashed-jihadi-brides-should-be-forgiven-19322108
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 02:17:40 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. John Lamberton exposes malfeasance by public officials.
Check out my website >   http://johnlamberton.webs.com/index.htm?no_redirect=true     The truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2019, 07:25:02 PM »
It seems Shamima Begum has had her British citizenship revoked.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Online Davel

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2019, 07:30:29 PM »
So you think she could be made stateless, even though those who understand the law say she can't?

as I correctly said...her citizenship could be,...and has been revoked...those who you think did understand the law...did not....she can now apply for her bangladeshi passport....im fairly sure her son has no right to a UK passport either...I wonder what diane abbott...the shadow home secretary ...will have to say
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 07:43:18 PM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it