Madeleine McCann alive?

[G-Unit]

I doubt very much if Scotland Yard or the Judicial police have given much thought to any of the events of the first four months of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance once they had both got their independent scoping exercises out of the way.

I do not think that an investigation which is stuck like a fly in aspic is going to reach any kind of conclusion.  Investigations which progress from studying evidence for what can be discarded or is relevant for progressing to the next stage have a much better chance.

I wonder where Redwood found his 195 new unvestigative opportunities? I thought it was by sifting through the evidence gathered in the beginning.
 https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/25/madeleine-mccann-case-reopen-call

[Brietta]

I wonder where Redwood found his 195 new unvestigative opportunities? I thought it was by sifting through the evidence gathered in the beginning.
 https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr/25/madeleine-mccann-case-reopen-call

It is beyond my understanding why some make the assumption that the be all and end all of Madeleine's case centred on four months in 2007; particularly when much of what was carried out then was an investigative irrelevance while at the same time the relevance of the phone traffic between burglars was ignored.

Just as the relevance to a child missing from her bed was not linked to instances of other children attacked in theirs by an intruder.

When Madeleine's case was shut down in 2008 with the failure of the police to determine what had happened to her, only her parents kept the work on her case alive for the years between then and until the end of 2013 when Scotland Yard and the Judicial police took over from the McCann private investigators.

I think much of that time, expense, hard work and information of all those years may well have been channelled through Operation Grange.

[pathfinder73]

It was already proven that someone could get into the apartment through the window,  a PJ officer went through the window.

I don't think that the abductor entered through the window though,  I believe he had a key,  the window was opened for another reason,  maybe for the Police to believe the abductor had entered that way to put them off the scent that someone had a key.  IMO

You would think they would leave some evidence to look like somebody went through the window if you believe in that fantasy. What is not fantasy is that crime scene was tampered with before the police arrived. The window was closed in crime scene photos and the shutter down but there was an abnormal crumpled curtain behind the sofa when both dogs later alerted and some say they're unreliable    The unreliable ones are well known!

[G-Unit]

It is beyond my understanding why some make the assumption that the be all and end all of Madeleine's case centred on four months in 2007; particularly when much of what was carried out then was an investigative irrelevance while at the same time the relevance of the phone traffic between burglars was ignored.

Just as the relevance to a child missing from her bed was not linked to instances of other children attacked in theirs by an intruder.

When Madeleine's case was shut down in 2008 with the failure of the police to determine what had happened to her, only her parents kept the work on her case alive for the years between then and until the end of 2013 when Scotland Yard and the Judicial police took over from the McCann private investigators.

I think much of that time, expense, hard work and information of all those years may well have been channelled through Operation Grange.

In your opinion there are no unanswered questions from those early days. The problem is that a lot og people disagree with you and will continue to point those anomalies out.

[Vertigo Swirl]

In your opinion there are no unanswered questions from those early days. The problem is that a lot og people disagree with you and will continue to point those anomalies out.

It’s not a problem, every major news story has its dedicated band of conspiracy theorists who refuse to accept the official version of events, twas ever thus. 

[Brietta]

In your opinion there are no unanswered questions from those early days. The problem is that a lot og people disagree with you and will continue to point those anomalies out.

There are still those who hold the unshakeable belief that the world is flat ... but even so ... I doubt the compounded errors of the 2007 four month investigation feature anywhere in current police thinking except perhaps that it is more of an embarrassment than assistance.

[G-Unit]

There are still those who hold the unshakeable belief that the world is flat ... but even so ... I doubt the compounded errors of the 2007 four month investigation feature anywhere in current police thinking except perhaps that it is more of an embarrassment than assistance.

If we're going to disciss beliefs then those pointing out anomalies are speaking about facts, not beliefs.

[Mr Gray]

If we're going to disciss beliefs then those pointing out anomalies are speaking about facts, not beliefs.

You talk about anomalies in the mccanns statenents... But it is opinion as to whether the statements are, accurate... These facts you presume are facts may not be facts, at all

[G-Unit]

You talk about anomalies in the mccanns statenents... But it is opinion as to whether the statements are, accurate... These facts you presume are facts may not be facts, at all

They are evidence. You have no evidence to uphold your opinions imo.

[Mr Gray]

They are evidence. You have no evidence to uphold your opinions imo.

They are evidence but are they accurate.. We don't know...almost certainly the way they were taken means they will contain errors.
And there is, evidence to support my opinion... It's been quoted several times

Have you really not seen this.... And more



Collin Sutton, "We’re talking about interviews given by the McCanns and friends through an interpreter, written down in Portuguese and then translated back into English so officers from Grange can read them. The room for error would be enormous.”

[G-Unit]

They are evidence but are they accurate.. We don't know...almost certainly the way they were taken means they will contain errors.
And there is, evidence to support my opinion... It's been quoted several times

Have you really not seen this.... And more



Collin Sutton, "We’re talking about interviews given by the McCanns and friends through an interpreter, written down in Portuguese and then translated back into English so officers from Grange can read them. The room for error would be enormous.”

I disagree with Mr Sutton. The witnesses gave their evidence and the interpreter translated it into Portuguese. After it was typed the interpreter translated it back into English and the witness signed it. No room there for 'enormous' errors, they would have been noticed. If Grange were given translations containing 'enormous' errors then they must have used sub-standard translators imo.

People may not be clear about times, but what about sequences? Matthew Oldfield said on 4th May that the Payne group arrived at the Tapas 5 minutes before he went to listen at children's bedroom windows. His wife Rachael said his purpose in going was to look for the Payne group. Fancy Matthew forgetting why he left the table.

[Mr Gray]

I disagree with Mr Sutton. The witnesses gave their evidence and the interpreter translated it into Portuguese. After it was typed the interpreter translated it back into English and the witness signed it. No room there for 'enormous' errors, they would have been noticed. If Grange were given translations containing 'enormous' errors then they must have used sub-standard translators imo.

People may not be clear about times, but what about sequences? Matthew Oldfield said on 4th May that the Payne group arrived at the Tapas 5 minutes before he went to listen at children's bedroom windows. His wife Rachael said his purpose in going was to look for the Payne group. Fancy Matthew forgetting why he left the table.

you can disagree all you want its of no importance...the
FACT that translation is not an exact science...the
FACT that sutton made this statement...the
FACT that the mccanns were concerned with mistakes in the satements taht they said they gave new statements to control risks..the
FACT...that there is no record of what the mccanns actually said....the
FACT,,,...that rebelo drew attention to the possible mistakes in statements


All those facts are evidence which because of your fixed mindset you wish to deny,,,as you have denied other evidence on another topic


if you read the staements you will see the translators did not translate waht the witnesses said...they paraphrased it...another room for error.....im sure Grange undestand this and will have re interviewed teh mccanns

[Brietta]

I disagree with Mr Sutton. The witnesses gave their evidence and the interpreter translated it into Portuguese. After it was typed the interpreter translated it back into English and the witness signed it. No room there for 'enormous' errors, they would have been noticed. If Grange were given translations containing 'enormous' errors then they must have used sub-standard translators imo.

People may not be clear about times, but what about sequences? Matthew Oldfield said on 4th May that the Payne group arrived at the Tapas 5 minutes before he went to listen at children's bedroom windows. His wife Rachael said his purpose in going was to look for the Payne group. Fancy Matthew forgetting why he left the table.

Wonder where the burglars were when all this was going on?  Great pity no-one seems to have bothered to ask them until Scotland Yard did in 2014.

[G-Unit]

you can disagree all you want its of no importance...the
FACT that translation is not an exact science...the
FACT that sutton made this statement...the
FACT that the mccanns were concerned with mistakes in the satements taht they said they gave new statements to control risks..the
FACT...that there is no record of what the mccanns actually said....the
FACT,,,...that rebelo drew attention to the possible mistakes in statements


All those facts are evidence which because of your fixed mindset you wish to deny,,,as you have denied other evidence on another topic


if you read the staements you will see the translators did not translate waht the witnesses said...they paraphrased it...another room for error.....im sure Grange undestand this and will have re interviewed teh mccanns

The signed statements are facts and evidence in the case. Your facts are opinions about the reliability of those statements and are not evidence in the case.

[G-Unit]

Wonder where the burglars were when all this was going on?  Great pity no-one seems to have bothered to ask them until Scotland Yard did in 2014.

They were leading their lives and were still doing it in 2014, just as they are in 2019, I presume. SY were unable to connect them to the case. Perhaps it's time to move on?