Author Topic: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.  (Read 74902 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #105 on: March 11, 2019, 08:46:16 AM »
No, it's not about that. It's about whether the public prosecutors declared them innocent, as they and their supporters claim or whether they didn't, as the SC judges ruled.

Article 277/1 says;

The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Yipee! That does indeed suggest that they were cleared. The contents of the document say quite clearly, however, that they were not. That's why the SC judges said the case should have been archived ubder 277/2;

The investigation shall also be closed if it had not been possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient evidence confirming the crime or who were the authors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

277/2 fits what the prosecutors actually said;

While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

That means they didn't identify the crime. If they couldn't identify the crime they could  hardly say who did or didn't commit it. That would be saying "We don't know what happened to Madeleine but we know her parents didn't do it" That makes no sense.
'
Of course it makes sense.  Apply that logic to any number of other cases: Needham, Lawrence, etc

We donít know what crime was committed but we know Murat didnít do it - does thst make no sense to you?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 08:48:27 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2019, 08:48:14 AM »
It was all they had to work with and perhaps they hoped that the court would realise the stupidity or mendacity of that particular passage.  It would have been more honest and more logical if it had read
ďWe believe the main damage caused to our case against the McCanns was their failure to turn up to our reconstitution which we hoped would prove them guiltyĒ.

I'm afraid they said what they said, not hat you think they should have said.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Lace

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2019, 08:50:03 AM »
"Shut the curtains"?
A small child can easily go through and behind curtains without open them.
How do we know that the gates were closed and locked?
Any independent witnesses?
For some reasons the OC replaced the small gate with a big door after what happened and take a look at view from the top of the stairs, it would only take a second or two for a child to run out on the street, dark and with a restricted view a driver would have no chance to stop a car.

Did the driver then stop to clean the blood off the road?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2019, 08:50:35 AM »
Of course it makes sense.  Apply that logic to any number of other cases: Needham, Lawrence, etc

We donít know what crime was committed but we know Murat didnít do it - does thst make no sense to you?

Did they say that? A cite would be appreciated.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2019, 08:51:17 AM »
I'm afraid they said what they said, not hat you think they should have said.
You donít say!  And Iím saying that what they said was beyond idiotic, IMO.  Iím sure anyone who possesses the ability to think logically would have to agree even if they refuse to admit it.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #110 on: March 11, 2019, 08:52:54 AM »
Did they say that? A cite would be appreciated.
It was a rhetorical question which I am asking so that you can apply your critical faculties to a scenario that doesnít involve the McCanns and to hopefully highlight the idiocy of your proposition.  IMO.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #111 on: March 11, 2019, 09:16:06 AM »
You donít say!  And Iím saying that what they said was beyond idiotic, IMO.  Iím sure anyone who possesses the ability to think logically would have to agree even if they refuse to admit it.


They didn't seem to be all that bright. They used the wrong part of Article 277 in their archiving dispatch too. Those relying on the prosecutors to support their positions (including the McCanns) are putting their faith in the wrong people it seems.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #112 on: March 11, 2019, 09:24:52 AM »
No, it's not about that. It's about whether the public prosecutors declared them innocent, as they and their supporters claim or whether they didn't, as the SC judges ruled.

Article 277/1 says;

The Public Ministry shall, by dispatch, close the investigation, as soon as it has gathered sufficient evidence that the crime was not confirmed, that the arguido did not practice it in any way or that the procedure is legally inadmissible

Yipee! That does indeed suggest that they were cleared. The contents of the document say quite clearly, however, that they were not. That's why the SC judges said the case should have been archived ubder 277/2;

The investigation shall also be closed if it had not been possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient evidence confirming the crime or who were the authors.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Annulment_request.htm

277/2 fits what the prosecutors actually said;

While it is an unavoidable fact that Madeleine disappeared from Apartment 5A of the 'Ocean Club', the manner and circumstances under which this happened are not - despite the numerous diligences made in that sense -, therefore the range of crimes that were indicated and referred to during the inquiry remains untouched.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

That means they didn't identify the crime. If they couldn't identify the crime they could  hardly say who did or didn't commit it. That would be saying "We don't know what happened to Madeleine but we know her parents didn't do it" That makes no sense.
'

of course they were not declared innocent...and as far as I know they have never claimed to be declared innocent...


we don't know what happened to Maddie but its clear her parents were not involved
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #113 on: March 11, 2019, 09:33:10 AM »

They didn't seem to be all that bright. They used the wrong part of Article 277 in their archiving dispatch too. Those relying on the prosecutors to support their positions (including the McCanns) are putting their faith in the wrong people it seems.
AS I said earlier, it's all they had to work with.  Surely you can appreciate the Kafkaesque nightmare of their situation, if you can for just one second imagine the possibility that they didn't have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance?  I know it's hard but try!
[Definition of Kafkaesque. : of, relating to, or suggestive of Franz Kafka or his writings especially : having a nightmarishly complex, bizarre, or illogical quality Kafkaesque bureaucratic delays.]
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 01:18:29 AM by Robittybob1 »
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Faithlilly

'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #115 on: March 11, 2019, 09:47:03 AM »
AS I said earlier, it's all they had to work with.  Surely you can appreciate the Kafkaesque nightmare of their situation, if you can for just one second imagine the possibility that they didn't have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance?  I know it's hard but try!

I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #116 on: March 11, 2019, 09:56:11 AM »
I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.

doubts do not make someone guilty...evidence does.....people need to remember that
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 10:00:38 AM by Brietta »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Brietta

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #117 on: March 11, 2019, 10:15:27 AM »
I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.
The Amaral investigation may have had their doubts which propelled them into declaring them formal suspects in the days prior to a change in the law which would not have allowed such an action without supporting evidence ... which as we have seen did not exist.
The Rebelo team relied on what evidence there was which when presented to the public prosecutors led to the case being archived and the arguido status - which should never have been imposed in the first instance - being lifted.

Proper interpretation of the forensic results sent from the FSS being paramount in this.

What exactly do you mean by "behaviour"???  Are you basing your assessment of this on the opinion of the 'body language experts' on Portuguese television etc making capital out of which ear Gerry scratched or Kate not crying to suit or shedding a tear on cue?
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #118 on: March 11, 2019, 10:20:08 AM »
I don't know if they had anything to do with it or not. What I do know is that their evidence and behaviour has led many people, including the PJ, to have doubts about them.
Did you address my point or did you neatly dodge it? 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #119 on: March 11, 2019, 10:49:00 AM »
The Amaral investigation may have had their doubts which propelled them into declaring them formal suspects in the days prior to a change in the law which would not have allowed such an action without supporting evidence ... which as we have seen did not exist.
The Rebelo team relied on what evidence there was which when presented to the public prosecutors led to the case being archived and the arguido status - which should never have been imposed in the first instance - being lifted.

Proper interpretation of the forensic results sent from the FSS being paramount in this.

What exactly do you mean by "behaviour"???  Are you basing your assessment of this on the opinion of the 'body language experts' on Portuguese television etc making capital out of which ear Gerry scratched or Kate not crying to suit or shedding a tear on cue?
&%%6

Please ignore Kate's book, again, when she wrote that the McCann's had announced their decision to leave Portugal.  Not even Kate claims it had anything to do with a legal change that would occur around 8 days later.

 &%%6
Ooh, a snowflake!