Author Topic: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.  (Read 64444 times)

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Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #435 on: March 27, 2019, 04:55:18 PM »
Eddie alerts to an area not a specific item.  It is the humans with him that determined he was alerting to a coconut.  In the McCann case it is the humans who couldn't find the blood components that Keela was alerting to.  Don't blame the dog for the human failings.

You are making an assumption that the alerts are always correct... We have no way of knowing if that is correct... I don't blame the dogs for anything as the dogs themselves have never made any claims... The fault... IMO.. Lies with the human interpretation of the alerts ...it's important to remember that the alerts themselves have no evidential reliability or value
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Offline John

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #436 on: March 27, 2019, 05:32:03 PM »
You are making an assumption that the alerts are always correct... We have no way of knowing if that is correct... I don't blame the dogs for anything as the dogs themselves have never made any claims... The fault... IMO.. Lies with the human interpretation of the alerts ...it's important to remember that the alerts themselves have no evidential reliability or value

It goes without saying that CSI and cadaver dogs are an invaluable resource in any missing person investigation. Certainly, errors are made occasionally like with most things, scent and cadaver detection can be prone to all sorts of external factors.  Every dog is unique and no two dogs ever receive the exact same training. These dogs have solved many cases which would otherwise remain unsolved.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 05:35:00 PM by John »
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Offline Faithlilly

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #437 on: March 27, 2019, 05:41:50 PM »
Not suspects... No evidence... Fact

No knowledge.....fact.
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #438 on: March 27, 2019, 05:45:25 PM »
Can you imagine the speed with which the parents would contact their lawyers if it was even suggested that they hadnít been ruled out of the investigation ?
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #439 on: March 27, 2019, 05:49:05 PM »
It goes without saying that CSI and cadaver dogs are an invaluable resource in any missing person investigation. Certainly, errors are made occasionally like with most things, scent and cadaver detection can be prone to all sorts of external factors.  Every dog is unique and no two dogs ever receive the exact same training. These dogs have solved many cases which would otherwise remain unsolved.
From what I've seen cadaver and CSI dogs have been responsible for solving very.. Very.. Few cases... With good detective skills being far more important...
Prior to Luz Eddie only found one body.... And one since... In both PDL and Jersey the dogs discovered nothing of value..it's all hype.. Imo
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:19:07 PM by Davel »
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #440 on: March 27, 2019, 06:20:13 PM »
Can you imagine the speed with which the parents would contact their lawyers if it was even suggested that they hadnít been ruled out of the investigation ?
Donít be silly please. 
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #441 on: March 27, 2019, 07:58:13 PM »
You are making an assumption that the alerts are always correct... We have no way of knowing if that is correct... I don't blame the dogs for anything as the dogs themselves have never made any claims... The fault... IMO.. Lies with the human interpretation of the alerts ...it's important to remember that the alerts themselves have no evidential reliability or value
The dog alerting is a type of claim.
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Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #442 on: March 27, 2019, 08:03:46 PM »
The dog alerting is a type of claim.

What di you mean by that
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #443 on: March 27, 2019, 08:08:42 PM »
What di you mean by that
I'm thinking the dog is saying "I have found what I'm trained to find and I want my reward".  So the dog is making a claim.

You could multiply that with the reliability estimate from training with known samples.  So for Grime's dogs you get 95% of the time that claim is correct.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 08:10:57 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #444 on: March 27, 2019, 08:13:48 PM »
I'm thinking the dog is saying "I have found what I'm trained to find and I want my reward".  So the dog is making a claim.

You could multiply that with the reliability estimate from training with known samples.  So for Grime's dogs you get 95% of the time that claim is correct.
Si when the coconut was discovered Eddie was doing tbe same... From what I have read what you cannot do is speculate and decide what the dog is thinking..
Keela alerted... No blood found.. Alert not corroborated... According to the experts
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #445 on: March 27, 2019, 08:18:38 PM »
Si when the coconut was discovered Eddie was doing tbe same... From what I have read what you cannot do is speculate and decide what the dog is thinking..
Keela alerted... No blood found.. Alert not corroborated... According to the experts

Eddie never found a coconut.   A human decided that is what the dog alerted to.  Try and get a dog to say coconut!

If you have an animal companion you definitely get to know what they are thinking.  If you think you can tell what a kid is thinking, same for a companion animal IMO.

What would prevent a cadaver lying across a piece of coconut shell and this resulting in transference of cadaver odour?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 08:21:02 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #446 on: March 27, 2019, 08:21:38 PM »
Eddie never found a coconut.   A human decided that is what the dog alerted to.  Try and get a dog to say coconut!

If you have an animal companion you definitely get to know what they are thinking.  If you think you can tell what a kid is thinking, same for a companion animal IMO.
I absolutely agree with you re your first statement...Keela never found this sample...a human decided what the dog alerted to....I have  a Wondeful German Shepeherd
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #447 on: March 27, 2019, 08:24:00 PM »
I absolutely agree with you re your first statement...Keela never found this sample...a human decided what the dog alerted to....I have  a Wondeful German Shepeherd
And have you tried to work out what your dog wants from time to time? 
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Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #448 on: March 27, 2019, 08:24:45 PM »
Eddie never found a coconut.   A human decided that is what the dog alerted to.  Try and get a dog to say coconut!

If you have an animal companion you definitely get to know what they are thinking.  If you think you can tell what a kid is thinking, same for a companion animal IMO.

What would prevent a cadaver lying across a piece of coconut shell and this resulting in transference of cadaver odour?

this is what makes the alerts basically useless without corroborating evidence
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Offline Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #449 on: March 27, 2019, 08:26:10 PM »
And have you tried to work out what your dog wants from time to time?

not sure what relevance taht has...it could be taht once the cadaver dog gets tired...he alerts knowing he will get a reward...may expalin all the unconfirmed alerts
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