Author Topic: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.  (Read 68870 times)

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Online Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #855 on: April 01, 2019, 01:55:28 PM »
Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.

perhaps perlin hasnt expalined it very well
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #856 on: April 01, 2019, 02:15:52 PM »
Another one added to the people on the sceptic supporter's list.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Online Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #857 on: April 01, 2019, 02:31:34 PM »
Another one added to the people on the sceptic supporter's list.

Why has he said it would show whether maddies DNA was in the car when it wouldnt.... Would he not need both Kate and gerrys DNA for any meaningful analysis
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The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
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Offline jassi

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #858 on: April 01, 2019, 02:47:32 PM »
Maybe the computer could work out how many people were in the mix,   but how it could know the markers for each person is beyond me.  How on earth would it know which markers belonged where?   Ok  they have Madeleine's DNA  from which was found 19 markers I believe.  Now if they were searching for the rest of the markers,  how would the machine know which markers were hers,  even if it was found to have the rest of the markers in her DNA  they could also belong to other people who are in the mix,  do you see what I mean?  Madeleine would share markers with her family and also with the general public.

I do see what you mean, it's beyond me too, but it doesn't matter that you don't understand how it works, just as long as the people using it do.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Robittybob1

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Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #859 on: April 02, 2019, 03:46:53 AM »
I do see what you mean, it's beyond me too, but it doesn't matter that you don't understand how it works, just as long as the people using it do.
A lot of words seem to get used incorrectly.

Alleles is a word we should be using.  At each site a person will have 2 alleles (one from the mother and one from the father).   It is possible that at that site the allele inherited from the mother will be the same as the father so they will be homologous at that site.
So if the lab checks 10 sites there could be a maximum of 20 alleles.  If they found 3 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 2 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 3 persons if they were all contributors were homologous at that site.

If they found  5 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 3 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 5 persons if they were all homologous at that site.  (This is the situation found in the MM case IMO)

But if there were 3 persons contributing to a DNA sample there could be a maximum total of 60 alleles in the sample (6 alleles per site).

If they only found a total of 36 alleles from a sample that had at least 3 contributors IMO it suggests the contributors were closely related.

If the sample was a mix DNA from child, mother and maternal grandmother, I think it is possible to have a total of 36 alleles, but from analysis there would also need to be multiple homologous alleles between the father's and the maternal line. This could happen in smallish communities.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 03:51:12 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Offline Lace

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #860 on: April 02, 2019, 08:49:13 AM »
A lot of words seem to get used incorrectly.

Alleles is a word we should be using.  At each site a person will have 2 alleles (one from the mother and one from the father).   It is possible that at that site the allele inherited from the mother will be the same as the father so they will be homologous at that site.
So if the lab checks 10 sites there could be a maximum of 20 alleles.  If they found 3 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 2 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 3 persons if they were all contributors were homologous at that site.

If they found  5 alleles at any one site it suggests at least 3 persons contributed to the DNA sample, but it could be 5 persons if they were all homologous at that site.  (This is the situation found in the MM case IMO)

But if there were 3 persons contributing to a DNA sample there could be a maximum total of 60 alleles in the sample (6 alleles per site).

If they only found a total of 36 alleles from a sample that had at least 3 contributors IMO it suggests the contributors were closely related.

If the sample was a mix DNA from child, mother and maternal grandmother, I think it is possible to have a total of 36 alleles, but from analysis there would also need to be multiple homologous alleles between the father's and the maternal line. This could happen in smallish communities.

The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO

Offline jassi

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #861 on: April 02, 2019, 09:20:31 AM »
The contributors could easily be members of the general public as it was a hire car. IMO

Indeed they could, which is why it would be a good thing if  clarification were able to replace uncertainty.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Lace

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #862 on: April 02, 2019, 09:38:58 AM »
Indeed they could, which is why it would be a good thing if  clarification were able to replace uncertainty.



Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   

Offline jassi

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #863 on: April 02, 2019, 10:06:53 AM »


Part of Lowes report -
   A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.

37 components  of which 15 was Madeleine's.   

Exactly - uncertainty.
Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a definitive answer ?  8)-)))
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Online Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #864 on: April 02, 2019, 10:26:35 AM »
Exactly - uncertainty.
Wouldn't it be nice if there could be a definitive answer ?  8)-)))

Not really... It wouldn't prove anything
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The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #865 on: April 02, 2019, 10:33:58 AM »
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

What if none of the 'components' were actually MBM's?
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #866 on: April 02, 2019, 10:34:58 AM »
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything

It could prove that the similarity to Madeleine’s DNA was simpl by chance and that there was nothing to put Madeleine in the car.
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline Cheeky Monkey

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #867 on: April 02, 2019, 11:15:09 AM »
Not really... It wouldn't prove anything
It could also prove the Portuguese police were not under so much pressure that they planted DNA evidence of a missing child who they had never met in their lives before, in the hire car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ri32SU2rE&t=193s
 
Gerry McCann: "If you think about the millions and millions of British families who go to the Mediterranean each year, really the chances of this happening are in the order of 100 million to one."

Online Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #868 on: April 02, 2019, 11:26:07 AM »
What if none of the 'components' were actually MBM's?

That would not prove Maddie had not been carried in the car
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Online Davel

Re: Podcasts by Mark Saunokonoko of 9News.
« Reply #869 on: April 02, 2019, 11:29:09 AM »
It could also prove the Portuguese police were not under so much pressure that they planted DNA evidence of a missing child who they had never met in their lives before, in the hire car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Ri32SU2rE&t=193s

Madeleines DNA could be all over the car... The dogs don't alert to dna
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it