Author Topic: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.  (Read 4620 times)

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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #165 on: November 07, 2019, 01:53:24 AM »
The use of the phrase ....and hence ... used by Patsy and the ransom note writer could be significant.  If someone was trying to set Patsy up copying phrases used by Patsy would be very useful.  http://www.statementanalysis.com/jonbenet-ramsey-murder/ransom-note/

I can see no reason the Ramsey's would show themselves up by using the $118,000 figure in the ransom note.

"The terms “watching over” and “and hence” are consistent with a religious mindset and they are known to be used in the Ramsey family Christmas message which Patsy wrote the year after JonBenet’s death."
http://dyingwords.net/tag/patsy-ramsey/

OK there was a Christmas message in 1997 as well. 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 02:01:41 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #166 on: November 07, 2019, 02:13:48 AM »
Found the 1997 Christmas message:
http://www.re-newsit.com/p/the-bonita-papers-are-unedited-notes-of.html

" On the one year anniversary of the death of JonBenet, the following Christmas message with distributed nationwide through the internet web site:

A Christmas Message from the Ramsey Family

With the Christmas season upon us and the anniversary
of JonBenet’s death approaching, we are filled with
many emotions. We, as a family, miss JonBenet's
presence among us as we see the lights, hear the music,
and recall celebrations of Christmases past. We miss
her every day not just today.

On the one hand, we feel like Christmas should be
canceled. Where is there joy? Our Christmas is
forever tainted with the tragedy of her death. And yet
the message rings clear. Had there been no birth of
Christ, there would be no hope of eternal life, and,
hence, no hope of ever being with our loved ones again.

As the day of the birth of our Lord and Savior
approaches, we thank all across the nation and around
the world for your continued prayers of concern and
support. It is those prayers that sustain us. We ask
that as you gather with your families and loved ones
this Christmas, be joyful in the celebration of the
birth of Christ, knowing that this is truly the reason, for the season. We must continue to celebrate the
birth of Christ . . . for our hope of life together
ever after.

Thank you for all you meant to her and mean to as.

With blessing and prayer for a Joyful Holiday
Grace of God's ever present love for the New Year,

John, Patsy, John Andrew, Melinda and Burke

It is signed by 5 persons so who actually wrote it?  If there are a couple of similar phrases  in both this and the ransom note why blame Patsy.

Can anyone help me with the following sentence "Thank you for all you meant to her and mean to as"?

It is likely to be a typo should be "us" rather than "as".
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 02:33:44 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #167 on: November 07, 2019, 02:45:06 AM »
Definition of some terms: 
A phone tap provides direct access to a conversation so that it can be recorded or monitored. A phone trap collects data from the telephone company, which includes the telephone number called or caller ID and the names that are listed in association with the number.

You could expect at times the wrong thing was done Tap or trap?  Very similar sounding words.

"The special agents were working with some police officers to set up phone taps and traps, which would give them immediate access to all incoming and outgoing calls at the Ramsey house." PMPT.

You'd wonder when these taps and traps became functional?

"Around noon, at police headquarters, Detective Jim Byfield received the first of several printouts listing the calls made to and from telephones the police had targeted. After the list was reviewed, additional phone traps were ordered. During the next seven days, the police would trap calling information from phones belonging to suspects, neighbors, family friends, doctors, business associates, corporate offices, and public officials. Even the telephones at United Airlines Red Carpet airport lounges and the mortuary that held JonBenét’s body were trapped. In all, there were traps on more than sixty-seven telephone numbers belonging to fifty-nine individuals, including Lt. Governor Gail Schoettler and her husband, Don Stevens, who knew John Ramsey from the days when they both attended Michigan State University. "
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 11:23:29 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #168 on: November 07, 2019, 11:28:52 AM »
I had noted previously points about this aspect.  The following comes up in PMPT page 81 "After JonBenét’s body was found, victim advocate Grace Morlock told detectives, John Ramsey said more than once that he didn’t think the kidnapper meant to kill his daughter, because she was wrapped in her blanket."

Think about that for a moment, what could the kidnapper have really wanted.

Was it just to be considered first?  John "we have your daughter" - did he ask himself which one?
Did the killer just want the money, the cops not to get involved, and no one else should get involved as well.

I see one of John's associates when told by John, that his daughter was kidnapped, he asked John, "which daughter?" Was this what the kidnapper was really on about?  What did they want, was it to be given some priority in their such wonderful lives?
I see evidence of this in the practice note, "Mr and Mrs Ramsey, we have your daughter" but that would only bring the attention back to JonBenet (as Jonbenet is the only daughter of Mr and Mrs Ramsey), so scrub that one.  It couldn't start like that, it had to be "Mr Ramsey, we have your daughter", and his response should have been, which one (as I have two daughters)?  He needed to have rung Melinda's cellphone, if she had one, or to ring Lucinda Johnson, the former Mrs Ramsey, to find out if Melinda was OK.

This still could get complicated for how would anyone in the basement know what John was doing and what he had done to satisfy the demands?  Maybe at the worst (for him) it was just to get the money ready and to wait as demanded by the ransom note.  All their plans would be messed up, their flights, and possibly their trips on the Big Red Boat cruise etc. well that was the end result any way.

Could John ever be told what to do?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 02:39:13 AM by Robittybob1 »
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #169 on: November 08, 2019, 02:06:47 AM »
Definition of more terms:
Thanksgiving
Description
Thanksgiving is a national holiday in the United States, celebrated on the fourth Thursday of November. It originated as a harvest festival. Thanksgiving has been celebrated nationally on and off since 1789, with a proclamation by George Washington after a request by Congress.

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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #170 on: November 08, 2019, 02:13:04 AM »
Someone else also found the Wine Cellar door hard to open, from PMPT page #81: "The police interviewed Linda Hoffmann-Pugh for a second time on Friday, December 27, and they came with a tape recorder. The Ramseys’ housekeeper told the police that the day after Thanksgiving, she, her daughter Ariana, and her husband were at the Ramseys’ house washing the windows and getting the house ready for Christmas. Hoffmann-Pugh brought the Christmas decorations in from the garage but couldn’t find the artificial trees that had been brought to the house from the Access Graphics storage hangar. There should have been a tree for the playroom and one for each of the five bedrooms. HoffmannPugh even checked the basement, but she couldn’t find them, so she continued cleaning the windows. After they had washed the windows, Hoffmann-Pugh and her daughter started searching the house for the missing trees. She saw a closed door in the basement just past the boiler room, which she had never noticed before. She tried to open the door, but it was stuck shut, apparently from a recent painting. She pulled at it hard and the door finally opened. Feeling around in the dark, she found a light switch on the wall to her right. The room was full of trees, some still covered with last year’s decorations, replicas of Burke’s model airplanes and John Andrew’s cowboy hats, boots, and red scarves. The next day the housekeeper had her older daughter, Tina, her son-in-law Mike, and her husband, Merv, take all the trees upstairs and place them in their proper rooms. The police asked Hoffmann-Pugh if she had closed the door to that storage room securely. She didn’t know. She couldn’t even tell the police what the room looked like empty because she wasn’t the last person to leave, she said. "
"
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #171 on: November 08, 2019, 05:51:12 PM »
What I'm going to be looking out for is a list of the items also found in the Wine Cellar.  Above post Linda HP mentions some items belonging to John Andrew Ramsey (JAR).  I wonder if the suitcase was in there as well.  No one seems to remember where it came from or who owned it but it also had things in it of a personal (JAR) nature.

"John Andrew’s cowboy hats, boots, and red scarves."
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #172 on: November 08, 2019, 06:29:57 PM »
Definition of some terms: 
A phone tap provides direct access to a conversation so that it can be recorded or monitored. A phone trap collects data from the telephone company, which includes the telephone number called or caller ID and the names that are listed in association with the number.

You could expect at times the wrong thing was done Tap or trap?  Very similar sounding words.

"The special agents were working with some police officers to set up phone taps and traps, which would give them immediate access to all incoming and outgoing calls at the Ramsey house." PMPT.

You'd wonder when these taps and traps became functional?

"Around noon, at police headquarters, Detective Jim Byfield received the first of several printouts listing the calls made to and from telephones the police had targeted. After the list was reviewed, additional phone traps were ordered. During the next seven days, the police would trap calling information from phones belonging to suspects, neighbors, family friends, doctors, business associates, corporate offices, and public officials. Even the telephones at United Airlines Red Carpet airport lounges and the mortuary that held JonBenét’s body were trapped. In all, there were traps on more than sixty-seven telephone numbers belonging to fifty-nine individuals, including Lt. Governor Gail Schoettler and her husband, Don Stevens, who knew John Ramsey from the days when they both attended Michigan State University. "
Not only are there Phone Taps, and Phone Traps but there are also "phone tapes".
PMPT "Two days later, Colin discovered that the Roswell police, unknown to Eller or Mason, routinely taped all incoming and outgoing phone calls.

That feels like an invasion of privacy to me.
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Offline Robittybob1

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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #173 on: November 08, 2019, 07:09:48 PM »
A good question is being asked here.

"On Tuesday, January 7, two detectives went to the Ramseys’ hangar and interviewed Michael Archuleta, John Ramsey’s private pilot: Richard Bjelkovig, his copilot; and other personnel. The officers learned that the Ramseys had planned to leave for their Christmas vacation at 7:00 A.M. on December 26. Archuleta mentioned that they had expected to leave their home for the Jefferson County Airport at about 6:30. Archuleta said he woke at about 4:30 A.M. and left for the airport at around 6:00. About ten minutes after Patsy Ramsey called 911 and three minutes after Officer Rick French arrived at the Ramseys’ house, John tried to call Archuleta at the airport. Instead he reached copilot Bjelkovig. Ramsey told Bjelkovig that JonBenét had been kidnapped. Archuleta was still

136

en route to the airport. Bjelkovig reached Archuleta’s wife at home to tell her the news. By 6:05 the police, the Fernies, the Whites, and the Ramseys’ pilots all knew about the kidnapping, though the ransom note had threatened that JonBenét would die if Ramsey informed anyone. The police were puzzled about why John Ramsey was in such a hurry to tell his pilot that his daughter had been kidnapped. When Ramsey finally talked to Archuleta that morning, he instructed the pilot not to fly to Minneapolis. Instead, Archuleta was to notify the commercial airline on which Ramsey’s children were arriving from Atlanta and leave word for them to call their father. At 1:30 P.M., just twenty-five minutes after JonBenét’s body was found, John Ramsey called Archuleta again, at his home. “She’s gone,” Ramsey said. “They’ve killed her.” Then he told Archuleta to ready the plane for a flight to Atlanta that evening. Fleet White then called Archuleta at 3:00 P.M. to say that the trip to Atlanta was canceled. Ramsey’s flight plans raised more questions for the police: Why had Ramsey called Archuleta so soon after JonBenét’s body was found, and why did he want to leave Boulder? Like so many other questions, these would remain unanswered until the Ramseys could be interviewed."  source PMPT
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #174 on: November 08, 2019, 07:58:05 PM »
"I said nothing. I wanted to hear where they were going with all this. “We know you traveled with John Ramsey.” Of course I did. He was my boss. Why lie? I just closed the door. —Laurie Wagner"

Laurie had to give finger prints and palm prints.  The police told her there was an unidentified print on the ransom note.  True or false?
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #175 on: November 09, 2019, 11:03:53 AM »
Still working my way through Perfect Murder Perfect Town.   It is a long book as there is a lot of investigation, and politics involved as well.
Was it just lucky that the kidnappers found the wine cellar to leave the body in?
Was it just luck that they left the ransom note on the stairs Patsy and John come down?
Was it just luck the note was addressed to John Ramsey not Mr and Mrs Ramsey?

[Many posts in this thread have been amended as I get a better understanding of the case, therefore for you to get a full understanding of the "New theory" try reading the thread from the beginning again sometime.
It is what I do regularly checking that what I have written can be backed with at least one cite.]

« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 05:15:38 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #176 on: November 09, 2019, 05:34:35 PM »
Page#199 PMPT:
"EXPERT: KILLER KNEW JONBENÉT JonBenét Ramsey knew her killer, and the killer had ready access to the family home, a renowned criminologist told The Denver Post. Robert Ressler, who for 16 years was a profiler for the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit and the first manager of the FBI’s Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, told the Post that his study of the case— including a visit to Boulder this week—convinces him that the 6-year-old was not killed by a stranger. —Howard Pankratz The Denver Post, January 31, 1997 When the Star received a tip on February 5 that John Andrew Ramsey had tried to arrange the death of his halfsister, JonBenét, they passed the information to the Boulder police. A sometime police informant had told the tabloid that on the weekend of either Memorial Day or July Fourth 1996, while the Ramsey family was vacationing in Michigan, John Andrew had offered him $10,000 to ram a power boat into a smaller boat that would be carrying him and JonBenét. Supposedly, John Andrew would jump overboard to safety just before impact and JonBenét, he hoped, would be killed. The informant told the Star that he had rejected the offer. Detective Jane Harmer was assigned to follow up on the tip. The informant was interviewed by local police in Waterford, Michigan, where he repeated the story he’d told the tabloid. Two weeks later, the Boulder police discovered that the informant had a dubious history. A check of Michigan police agencies revealed that he had come under suspicion—first for possibly planting drugs in an alleged dope house and second for refusing to take a polygraph test to
confirm information he had provided in a cocaine investigation. By the end of February, Boulder police had decided that the informant’s accusations were unfounded, and yet another lead in the Ramsey case would go nowhere."

Repeating the story is rather a good start.  Strange that once again there is some signs of tension between the two lines of John Ramsey's family.
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #177 on: November 09, 2019, 06:39:12 PM »
"Meanwhile, the CBI reported to the police that a pubic hair had been discovered on the white blanket found around JonBenét’s body. When the hair was evaluated under a compound microscope, it showed a high degree of “buckling,” or twisting, and a greater degree of curl than chest or scalp hairs.* The hair might have gotten there in several ways: A member of the Ramsey family or a guest could have used the blanket previously, the hair could have come from inside the clothes dryer when the blanket was laundered— or it could have been left on the blanket during the commission of the crime. All the Ramseys were asked to provide pubic hair samples. On February 13, as reporters were preparing to cover a press conference given by Alex Hunter, Patsy slipped into Boulder Community Hospital to give Detectives Arndt and Harmer her pubic hair sample. A week later, John went to the same hospital and gave his sample. By the end of the month, the police had obtained samples from Melinda and John Andrew and from John Andrew’s friend Brad Millard.
Footnote: * Hair has thirty-five characteristics, some of which are pigmentation, medulla, scales on the outside of hair, and the channel that runs through the center of each strand.

I wonder if Stewart Long was considered to supply pubic hair samples?

P 224 PMPT
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #178 on: November 09, 2019, 07:07:41 PM »
Alex Hunter DA Boulder County:
"Hunter then looked squarely into the TV cameras. “Finally, I want to say to you, through you, I want to say something to the person or persons who committed this crime, the person or persons who took this baby from us.” He paused a moment before continuing: “The list of suspects narrows. Soon there will be no one on the list but you. When that time comes—and as I have said to you, that time will come—Chief Koby and I and our people of the expert prosecution task force and the other resources that we bring together are going to bear down on you. You have stripped us of any mercy that we might have had in the beginning of this investigation. We will see that justice is served in this case. And that you pay for what you did. And we have no doubt that that will happen. “And I say to you that there will not be any failure in that regard. We will ensure that justice is served for this community, for this nation, and, most important, for JonBenét. Thank you.” "
From PMPT. p# 226
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 10:41:16 PM by Robittybob1 »
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Re: New Theory accounting for the death of Jonbenet.
« Reply #179 on: November 09, 2019, 11:01:22 PM »
In April 1997, Ellis Armistead, an investigator hired by the Ramseys, would tell the police that there were twenty more extra keys outstanding. In the end, however, the detectives could find only nine people who said they had keys. Six of the keys were returned. Three were missing. The police soon learned that the front door locked automatically when it was closed. The police were told that Patsy, possibly without her husband’s knowledge, had hidden a key outdoors near the front door because whenever she went out front for something, she got locked out. Now that key was also missing.  PMPT page #234


Who better to know where a key is hidden other that the kids.
Did even John not know about the hidden key?
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