Author Topic: Sceptics beliefs ?  (Read 68154 times)

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Offline Davel

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2019, 09:55:37 AM »
Yip, for blatantly obvious reasons, I'm one of those sceptics. Count me in on the that one. 
Count me in when your posting your proof that I'm wrong. 8(0(*

If you are going to use them against the McCann's let me know when you have proof they are, accurate... We don't know
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Davel

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2019, 09:57:23 AM »
There is evidence against the McCanns.

Witness statements are evidence.

A witness said they saw Kate & Gerry carrying a big black bag & acting suspiciously.

Of course witness statements are evidence... Katecsaid the window was open and Maddie had been abducted... So there is evidence of abduction
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Brietta

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2019, 10:08:51 AM »
You think questions are being ignored... I don't agree...one if the main sceptics beliefs is their reliance on the dog alerts as evidence... You yourself said that it was Grimes opinion the alerts, were to cadaver odour... Two other sceptics have repeated the claim... It isn't true
Almost every belief held and promulgated by the sceptics for the past twelve years is based on the false information given to the Portuguese press by the investigators of the time.

Each as damaging as the next as they built on the narrative ... but none I think as clammy as the misrepresentation of the Grime dogs (despite the owner's factual synopsis  at the time) which gave the 'justification' to have Madeleine's parents declared as formal suspects.

Snip
The incomplete DNA information found its way into the press and, before long, unsubstantiated allegations started to circulate.

Tabloids splashed accusations against the McCanns across their front pages and the media frenzy became relentless. One particular newspaper, featured in the documentary, ran a front-page headline with the words: "We have found her blood in the boot of your hire car… Did you kill her by accident?"

There was no evidence to show that Madeleine was the source of the DNA. ~ Netflix Documentary 2019
___________________________________________________________________________________
Snip
"There never did emerge one single identical match for the DNA of Madeleine McCann," investigative reporter and researcher Robbyn Swan explains.

Expert dog handler Martin Grime says that an alert from the cadaver dogs was not enough on its own; it was only ever intended as an indicator for the investigators to look for possible corroborating evidence – which, in this case, they did not find. ~ Netflix Documentary 2019

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a26852825/disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-theories-speculation-fake-facts/

The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2019, 10:32:54 AM »
You think questions are being ignored... I don't agree...one if the main sceptics beliefs is their reliance on the dog alerts as evidence... You yourself said that it was Grimes opinion the alerts, were to cadaver odour... Two other sceptics have repeated the claim... It isn't true

The  dog alerts aren't something I rely on, they're just one of the many puzzling features of the case. They seem to be one of your main interests though; they get dragged into every thread, relevant or not.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2019, 10:37:40 AM »
Then there was the huge pool of suspicion made out of Kate's request to speak to a priest on the night Madeleine went missing.  Where did that nonsense come from?
But it remains one of the foundation of sceptic beliefs.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2019, 11:16:48 AM »
You miss the point completely.
It is a fact that after many years of investigation by both NSY and the Portuguese Police that Madeleine's parents are not suspects in her disappearance.
You may continue to express your doubts and concerns but it doesn't alter the above fact one iota.
I started the thread because from time to time I do wonder what sceptics are waiting for?
As you have liked Faiths post, you obviously agree that this is thee most pointless thread ever!
Don't contribute then, let it sink into oblivion.

The only way to find out what the police are thinking is when they act. The Portuguese police have taken no actions afaik. Op Grange have done appeals, interviews and some digging. The appeals seemed to be attempts to identify certain people, the interviews were to gather more information or rule people out and the digging suggests they are open to the possibility that there was a death and disposal.

They have said the McCanns aren't suspects but not why. If they were relying on the archiving despatch they should have listened to the Supreme Court Judges who pointed out that it didn't 'clear' the McCanns. If they investigated them and found no evidence against them they remain in the same position as the first investigation; they don't know what the crime was or who committed it.

In my opinion the fact that there are continuing investigations doesn't allow conclusions to be drawn about the final outcome; if any.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2019, 11:27:12 AM »
The only way to find out what the police are thinking is when they act. The Portuguese police have taken no actions afaik. Op Grange have done appeals, interviews and some digging. The appeals seemed to be attempts to identify certain people, the interviews were to gather more information or rule people out and the digging suggests they are open to the possibility that there was a death and disposal.

They have said the McCanns aren't suspects but not why. If they were relying on the archiving despatch they should have listened to the Supreme Court Judges who pointed out that it didn't 'clear' the McCanns. If they investigated them and found no evidence against them they remain in the same position as the first investigation; they don't know what the crime was or who committed it.

In my opinion the fact that there are continuing investigations doesn't allow conclusions to be drawn about the final outcome; if any.

But the over riding conclusion at this time is that the McCanns are not suspects and all the perceivd evidence which sceptics believe to be important and incriminating has surely been discounted so far by two police investigations.
I'm intrigued as to why sceptics seem to ignore this fact!
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2019, 11:27:34 AM »
Then there was the huge pool of suspicion made out of Kate's request to speak to a priest on the night Madeleine went missing.  Where did that nonsense come from?
But it remains one of the foundation of sceptic beliefs.

Please note that 'it remains one of the foundation of sceptic beliefs' in your opinion. I'm one of those you have named a sceptic and I accept that some people turn to religopn in times of trouble so it's definitely not a sifnificant matter in my opinion.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2019, 11:31:51 AM »
I'm not one of those many people who find the request that important but the fact that priests preach about reincarnation may have been seen as relevant to some people.

Which is exactly what this thread is all about ... the eclectic nature of the system which sustains sceptic beliefs.  Which I think are of the Pick-and-Mix variety ... and all highly pejorative of absolutely everything McCann.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Faithlilly

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2019, 11:33:52 AM »

That article is nine years old!
Still working cooperatively?
Nine years and  still and as yet  no evidence against the McCanns.

That you know of.
#Borishasfailed

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2019, 11:36:30 AM »
But the over riding conclusion at this time is that the McCanns are not suspects and all the perceivd evidence which sceptics believe to be important and incriminating has surely been discounted so far by two police investigations.
I'm intrigued as to why sceptics seem to ignore this fact!

That conclusion isn't over riding though. If it was there would be nothing to discuss.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2019, 11:43:28 AM »
That you know of.

If there is, why are the police not acting on this evidence?
And as the years and years of police investigation continues without any indication that the McCanns are suspects, what does keep you and other sceptics so convinced that there is such evidence?
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2019, 11:45:08 AM »
That conclusion isn't over riding though. If it was there would be nothing to discuss.

It at the moment as far as the police are concerned.
Unless you know otherwise.

Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline Davel

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2019, 11:45:37 AM »
The  dog alerts aren't something I rely on, they're just one of the many puzzling features of the case. They seem to be one of your main interests though; they get dragged into every thread, relevant or not.
I never used the word rely....i think sceptics such as yourself put too much emphasis on them...the reason i see belief in the alerts being important is that according to Almeida ..at the libel trial...they were the main reason the mccanns were made arguidos...the MAIN reason...thats not me attaching importance to them its teh initial investigation. You yourself misquoted grime when you posted  Grime had said in his opinion the dog alerts were to cadaver.

mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2019, 11:48:20 AM »
There is evidence against the McCanns.

Witness statements are evidence.

A witness said they saw Kate & Gerry carrying a big black bag & acting suspiciously.
@)(++(*  Several witnesses saw Murat acting suspiciously on the night of the abduction.  Evidence against him too.  I guess he is not cleared then, and is still a suspect.
"The answer is that no-one here believes the parents were directly involved in MM's disappearance" - G-Unit.