Author Topic: Sceptics beliefs ?  (Read 68132 times)

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Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #675 on: April 11, 2019, 10:53:22 AM »
Goncalo Amaral dismissed the notion of stranger abduction and introduced many of his prejudices into a sceptic belief system promoted by him and still adhered to twelve years down the line.

One very good reason for nothing being uncovered about this perpetrator in 2007 is that the investigation quickly moved into the realms of the fantasies of blue bags ~ missing fridges and MI5 operatives playing cover-up.

Where was the good solid police work usual to finding a perpetrator and building a case and not the ephemera of bottles of wine and non-existent anon witnesses such as the Irish teenage smoker.

He dismissed the notion of stranger abduction very quickly., too quickly and many of those early myths are still in circulation in various forums on the internet.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #676 on: April 11, 2019, 11:04:10 AM »
Goncalo Amaral dismissed the notion of stranger abduction and introduced many of his prejudices into a sceptic belief system promoted by him and still adhered to twelve years down the line.

One very good reason for nothing being uncovered about this perpetrator in 2007 is that the investigation quickly moved into the realms of the fantasies of blue bags ~ missing fridges and MI5 operatives playing cover-up.

Where was the good solid police work usual to finding a perpetrator and building a case and not the ephemera of bottles of wine and non-existent anon witnesses such as the Irish teenage smoker.

Amaral wasn't alone in doubting the notion of stranger abduction. I don't know why you cling to the notion that he was the originator of any doubts. People have said their doubts were not aroused by anything he said or did; why do you disbelieve them?

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #677 on: April 11, 2019, 11:08:25 AM »
Amaral wasn't alone in doubting the notion of stranger abduction. I don't know why you cling to the notion that he was the originator of any doubts. People have said their doubts were not aroused by anything he said or did; why do you disbelieve them?

I find it difficult to believe that without all the myths, disgraceful newspaper articles and the McCanns being wrongly (IMO) made arguidos that these doubts would have arisen at all.
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline jassi

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #678 on: April 11, 2019, 11:25:26 AM »
It has never been established that there is a perpetrator. In order to believe there is one it's necessary to believe that those closest to MBM are completely innocent. In order to believe those people are completely innocent it's necessary to believe they told the truth. Some people do believe that, others don't.

In my opinion it's those who support the parents and their friends who are relying on belief. Those who view them with scepticism are refusing to believe. They point to evidence which suggests a possible lack of truthfulness. What they don't know is why that evidence exists.

I don't accept that Madeleine disappeared into thin air of her own volition, so there has to be a perpetrator
The identity of this person, whether stranger or known to the family has not yet been determined.
All IMO.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #679 on: April 11, 2019, 11:52:07 AM »
I find it difficult to believe that without all the myths, disgraceful newspaper articles and the McCanns being wrongly (IMO) made arguidos that these doubts would have arisen at all.

You may find something difficult to believe but that doesn't nean it's not true.

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline jassi

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #680 on: April 11, 2019, 11:55:18 AM »
You may find something difficult to believe but that doesn't nean it's not true.

I quite agree, although  far down the scale of probability as far as I'm concerned.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline Brietta

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #681 on: April 11, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »
12 years on, nothing has advanced - as far as we can tell.
Plenty of leads that went nowhere, perhaps because they were never real leads in the first place, yet OG still plods on.

Many 'real' leads were not followed at the time in 2007 and had to be investigated after Scotland Yard's involvement of 2013 by which time the prime suspect for the Judicial police in 2013 had allegedly died.

Part and parcel of positive investigative work is checking everything to rule it in or rule it out before progressing to the next stage; sometimes successfully sometimes not; but if you don't bother being open to possibility or decide the conclusion and then seek the evidence to suit your conclusion that is a recipe for disaster.

The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #682 on: April 11, 2019, 12:02:06 PM »
You may find something difficult to believe but that doesn't nean it's not true.




What first triggered your disbelief  and has there ever been a time when you doubted your disbelief?
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline jassi

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #683 on: April 11, 2019, 12:04:23 PM »
Many 'real' leads were not followed at the time in 2007 and had to be investigated after Scotland Yard's involvement of 2013 by which time the prime suspect for the Judicial police in 2013 had allegedly died.

Part and parcel of positive investigative work is checking everything to rule it in or rule it out before progressing to the next stage; sometimes successfully sometimes not; but if you don't bother being open to possibility or decide the conclusion and then seek the evidence to suit your conclusion that is a recipe for disaster.

That is precisely what Operation Grange has been about. The so called 'leads' have just been a smokescreen - IMO
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #684 on: April 11, 2019, 12:10:46 PM »
I don't accept that Madeleine disappeared into thin air of her own volition, so there has to be a perpetrator
The identity of this person, whether stranger or known to the family has not yet been determined.
All IMO.

Whatever people think, it's true to say that the existence of a perpetrator has never been extablished.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline Brietta

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #685 on: April 11, 2019, 12:15:55 PM »
Amaral wasn't alone in doubting the notion of stranger abduction. I don't know why you cling to the notion that he was the originator of any doubts. People have said their doubts were not aroused by anything he said or did; why do you disbelieve them?

Amaral instituted and promoted his interpretation of what happened to Madeleine.

He wrote a best selling book about it.

He became an omnipresent media pundit to promulgate it.

Name me anyone else outwith his clique who has not long since abandoned 'doubt' in the face of evidence.

Amaral built a case to declare the McCanns arguidos ... that case was blown away when the PJ files were released, as Sandra Felgueiras broadcast to the Netflix audience.
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline jassi

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #686 on: April 11, 2019, 12:18:33 PM »
Whatever people think, it's true to say that the existence of a perpetrator has never been extablished.

Agreed, and after so much police activity as well. So much effort for so little return.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.

Offline kizzy

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #687 on: April 11, 2019, 12:28:10 PM »
My original point for the thread was to question why sceptics still hold fast to their beliefs   that the McCanns are complicit in their child's disappearance in spite of two ongoing police investigations which have been investigating the evidence for years, and have declared them not to be suspects.

Just to add on a personal note, we have just celebrated our Golden Wedding and the whole experience has brought sharply home to me how tragic it must be for any family to have a member of their family  missing from any celebration when the family member's whereabouts is unknown.


So you can imagine - as you still believe Maddie could still be alive.

How that must feel -  at the times Maddie was alone and had no one.

Bad decision or choice it was there's to make - not Maddie's.

What is tragic in all this- is Maddie faced it on her own they still had a family.
POSTS ARE -  MY OWN OPINION

Offline Erngath

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #688 on: April 11, 2019, 12:31:02 PM »
Agreed, and after so much police activity as well. So much effort for so little return.k


Look at it in a different way.
So much effort and still nothing to indicate that the police Investigations have apparently found any evidence  of parental involvement.
Surely that would be a relatively easier task than finding the evidence for stranger abduction!
Deal with the failings of others as gently as with your own.

Offline jassi

Re: Sceptics beliefs ?
« Reply #689 on: April 11, 2019, 12:39:41 PM »
So much effort and publicly, nothing to show for it. Zilch.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -   Into year 13 and still no solution.