Why Should We Believe the Parent’s When....?

[Brietta]

The passage of time doesn't change facts, evidence does.

The passage of time allows for evidence to be assessed and evaluated by fresh eyes which is precisely what happened at the review stages of Madeleine's case carried out independently by the Policia Judiciaria and Scotland Yard; which led both teams to recommend the reopening of Madeleine's case.

Both police authorities stressed that Madeleine's parents were not suspects and they were invited to Portugal to be briefed.

[Erngath]

It would appear so.....or certainly the vast majority of them.

It's very difficult to express my opinion of your theory without using the words "utter rubbish"
Could you give a little more detail of what that "certain age" might be.
Over seventy?
Over sixty?
At what age do you believe this propensity to see professionals as "not mere mortals" decline?

[Erngath]

Of course not but Erngath, for reasons known only to herself, keeps on banging on about it.

You started the thread about telling lies and trustworthiness.
I didn't.
I won't mention Amaral's conviction for perjury again today!

[Eleanor]

The passage of time doesn't change facts, evidence does.

Find The Evidence.  Proof is another thing altogether.  Some of us ageing people haven't quite lost our marbles, probably due to arguing this case.  Nor you neither.

It is all a case of Semantics in the end, and a desire to be able to put across our totally irrelevant understanding of The Law.

Your average Barrister would discard most of what we talk about.

I often have to think about what I might say, mainly because I don't want to come across as a complete ignoramus.  But I probably could tell you what actually matters.

[faithlilly]

I might agree if he was being interviewed as a witness but he wasn't.
He wasn't in court as a witness where his credibility was important.
It is a very badly produced video with the contents of a TV informal interview , cherry picked as Eleanor has pointed out!
Now some sceptics have taken that video and this supposed lie, where is the proof?
There's none.
Eleanor has pointed out the weaknesses in your theory in a much more succinct post than mine.

It was a video produced by Emma Loach, a friend of the parents I seem to remember. Wasn’t she a witness for them in Lisbon ? Details of the segment in dispute was published in a respected broadsheet, which was posted earlier.


‘The parents of Madeleine McCann have told how it was only a last-minute change of plan that led them to leave their children alone on the night their daughter disappeared.

Kate and Gerry McCann said that they had planned to take the family to The Millennium, a restaurant half a mile away. But because Madeleine and their twins, Sean and Amelie, were tired they decided to put them to bed and eat at the tapas restaurant near their apartment.

...The couple speak about their change of heart during a two-hour documentary, Madeleine, One Year On, Campaign for Change to be televised tonight.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/1908158/Madeleine-McCann-left-alone-as-last-minute-decision.html’

And this was also posted from the programme.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id453.htm


Gerry said: "I think the worst thing is we kind of almost thought about not going.  And er, and did.  We weren’t sure we were going to get into the tapas, remember, and…"

Kate said: "In fact we were all, we were all going to go up to the Millennium  again, that was with the kids, which is what we did the first night.  It was just, it was just because the walk was so long and we didn’t have a buggy and the  kids were tired by that time and I thought we were, you know we did talk about going up to the Millennium that night”


What more proof do you need of the lie ?

[faithlilly]

You started the thread about telling lies and trustworthiness.
I didn't.
I won't mention Amaral's conviction for perjury again today!

I did, but the parent’s lies and untrustworthiness.

As to not mentioning perjury again...good.

[Brietta]

You know the context. Kate admitted that she lied in her book. If you have a problem with that can I suggest that you take it up with the author.

It is not down to me to determine what interpretation to put on any member's esoteric statements in the absence of an appropriate cite ... that is for the member to provide on request.

Refusal to provide a valid cite and context for assertions made in posts introduces the issue of lying by omission.

I requested a cite ... I would still like to be given one.

[Erngath]

It was a video produced by Emma Loach, a friend of the parents I seem to remember. Wasn’t she a witness for them in Lisbon ? Details of the segment in dispute was published in a respected broadsheet, which was posted earlier.


‘The parents of Madeleine McCann have told how it was only a last-minute change of plan that led them to leave their children alone on the night their daughter disappeared.

Kate and Gerry McCann said that they had planned to take the family to The Millennium, a restaurant half a mile away. But because Madeleine and their twins, Sean and Amelie, were tired they decided to put them to bed and eat at the tapas restaurant near their apartment.

...The couple speak about their change of heart during a two-hour documentary, Madeleine, One Year On, Campaign for Change to be televised tonight.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/1908158/Madeleine-McCann-left-alone-as-last-minute-decision.html’

And this was also posted from the programme.

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id453.htm


Gerry said: "I think the worst thing is we kind of almost thought about not going.  And er, and did.  We weren’t sure we were going to get into the tapas, remember, and…"

Kate said: "In fact we were all, we were all going to go up to the Millennium  again, that was with the kids, which is what we did the first night.  It was just, it was just because the walk was so long and we didn’t have a buggy and the  kids were tired by that time and I thought we were, you know we did talk about going up to the Millennium that night”


What more proof do you need of the lie ?

Perhaps earlier that day or on the previous evening there had been doubt expressed about the black booking?
Eleanors previous post on this was very worthwhile in my opinion.
You think he was lying.
 
There is no proof.

[faithlilly]

It is not down to me to determine what interpretation to put on any member's esoteric statements in the absence of an appropriate cite ... that is for the member to provide on request.

Refusal to provide a valid cite and context for assertions made in posts introduces the issue of lying by omission.

I requested a cite ... I would still like to be given one.

Fair enough, though heaven knows why you’d want me to reiterate Kate’s dishonesty.

From Madeleine by Kate McCann.

We’d never lied about anything – not to the police, not to the media, not to anyone else. But now we found ourselves in one of those tricky situations where we just didn’t seem to have a choice. As it happened, Gerry had a mild stomach upset which we used as an excuse to postpone the trip. We didn’t feel good about this at all, but even if the judicial secrecy law had not prevented us from giving the main reason, can you imagine what would have happened if we’d announced to the journalists heading for Huelva that the police were coming to do some forensic work in our villa? We were not to know our excuse would prove to be no more than a temporary holding measure. If we had, we wouldn’t have bothered trying to keep the scurrilous headlines at bay.

[jassi]

Perhaps earlier that day or on the previous evening there had been doubt expressed about the black booking?
Eleanors previous post on this was very worthwhile in my opinion.
You think he was lying.
 
There is no proof.

I don't recall any of the other group members suggesting that there was doubt about the booking.

[Robittybob1]

What more proof do you need? You heard what Gerry said and were shown where they had block booked the tapas making Gerry's claim impossible to be true.

It was just a booking.  There would be a mechanism to cancel a booking IMO.

[G-Unit]

True.
And you have no idea of what evidence has been discovered by the two current police investigations?

I have evidence. If you want to refute it you need evidence too. Speculation counts for nothing. 

[faithlilly]

Perhaps earlier that day or on the previous evening there had been doubt expressed about the black booking?
Eleanors previous post on this was very worthwhile in my opinion.
You think he was lying.
 
There is no proof.

There had been doubt expressed ? Do you have a cite that leads you to that conclusion?

[Eleanor]

It's very difficult to express my opinion of your theory without using the words "utter rubbish"
Could you give a little more detail of what that "certain age" might be.
Over seventy?
Over sixty?
At what age do you believe this propensity to see professionals as "not mere mortals" decline?

I am now eighty years old.  I am generally totally ignored,  unless when people around me are trying to be kind.  My memory is absolutely suspect when it comes to things I don't want to remember.  But I remember every single thing about this case that I ever read, although this can never be all.  There is just too much of it.

In the beginning I gave much thought to the involvement of The McCanns.  I thought that they were involved.  On reflection, God knows why.  There is nothing with which to indict them.  I can only guess that I briefly got carried away with The Blame Game.  I am still mortally ashamed.  Especially when I finally remembered that I had left my own children alone in similar circumstances.

The one thing I am certain sure of is that should The McCanns eventually be found to be culpable I won't have spent the last twelve years being thoroughly nasty, and doing my head in with such hatred.

[Eleanor]

Of course not but Erngath, for reasons known only to herself, keeps on banging on about it.

Should she not, do you think?