Author Topic: The timeline revisited  (Read 161374 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2535 on: November 15, 2021, 12:12:32 PM »
Not the Met's " opinion" at all ,don't you understand how these announcements are carefully constructed ? I expect not if you're not a member of a police force .
The Supreme Court  of Portugal (the country whose case it is  remember)  announcement  definitely counts far more than what the Met say ,whose remit doesn't include investigating the parents.

Would you like to tell us what you think the SC said... I guarantee you wil get it wrong..

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2536 on: November 15, 2021, 01:17:34 PM »
Not the Met's " opinion" at all ,don't you understand how these announcements are carefully constructed ? I expect not if you're not a member of a police force .
The Supreme Court  of Portugal (the country whose case it is  remember)  announcement  definitely counts far more than what the Met say ,whose remit doesn't include investigating the parents.

Could you provide a cite Re what thee SC said... I'm confident they did not say what you think. If you are going to quote them as an authority you should be clear what they said... I really doubt you are

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2537 on: November 15, 2021, 11:07:24 PM »
The point being that "the collection of material from under the tiles for forensic analysis" perhaps verified the alert of both dogs to the blood deposited there as proved by forensic analysis.

So what exactly did the dogs alert to


After seeing the images and in agreement with the officers of DIC of Portimao it was defined that the undersigned should proceed with the recovery of four tiles. It was also defined that this operation of recovery of the tiles would also be filmed.

When looking at the images referred to above it was observed that the floor tiles to be recovered were situated in an area of the living room next to a window where there was a sofa and that the tiles referred to were underneath that sofa.
_____________________________________________________________________

As requested by investigating officers of the DIC of Portimao it was performed the lifting and respective recovery of the four tiles and of the skirting board next to them (they being identified with numbers 1 to 4) using a tile trimmer, a flat chisel [spelling mistake in report: "escopo" should be "escopro"] and a hammer.

After the recovery of the four tiles and the skirting board the dog specialised in the detection of traces of human blood was put into the area from where the tiles had been recovered, the English police officer who coordinated the movement of the dog, Martin Grime, having informed the undersigned that they should proceed with the recovery of another piece of tile that was close to the area from where the tile identified as number 1 had been lifted, that terminating the recovery of the tiles signalled by the dog. As requested the undersigned performed the lifting of and the recovery of the piece of tile indicated.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_EDDIE-KEELA.htm
_____________________________________________________________________

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 9

Objects attributed to the Apartment 5A of the Ocean Club

286/2007-CRL (1) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 1
A DNA result by LCN, that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex for a meaningful interpretation, was obtained from the cellular material collected from these floor tiles.

286/2007-CRL (2) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 2
An inconclusive, incomplete DNA result, consisting of only some unconfirmed DNA components, was obtained from the cellular material recovered from the edges of floor-tile 2 from the apartment floor. The attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material recovered from the larger area of floor-tile 2 was unfruitful, given that it was not possible to obtain any DNA profile. These samples were then subjected to LCN analysis.

An incomplete, low-level DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material in an area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, there is not any positive proof that supports the theory of any of the members of the McCann family to have contributed DNA to this result. A DNA result was obtained through LCN consistent with only one DNA component from a second area of floor-tile 2. In my opinion, this component leaves no room for any other interpretation.

286/2007-CRL (3) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 3
The attempts to a DNA profile from any cellular material in two areas of this floor-tile were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN analysis.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 10

A DNA result that consisted of only some DNA components was obtained through LCN analysis of cellular material recovered from one area of floor-tile 3. In my opinion, this result left no room for any other interpretation. The attempt made the obtain a DNA profile through LCN from a second area of floor-tile 3 was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained.

286/2007-CRL (4) Pieces of floor-tile identified as number 4
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these floor-tiles. In my opinion, this resuly contained information too meagre [scanty/poor] to permit a meaningful comparison.

286/2007-CRL (5) Pieces of floor-tile identified close to number 1
The attempt to obtain a DNA result through the LCN technique from some cellular material present in swabs collected from the marks [spots] 1, 2 and 3 were unfruitful, given that no DNA profile was obtained.

286/2007-CRL (6) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 1
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from these objects.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 11

286/2007-CRL (7) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 2
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (8) Pieces of skirting board identified as numbers 2 and 3
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (9) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 3
A DNA result that contained information too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (10) Pieces of skirting board identified as number 4
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 12

286/2007-CRL (11) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 1
A DNA result that appeared to be from at least three persons and that was too complex to permit a meaningful interpretation was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered from these objects.

286/2007-CRL (12) Pieces of skirting board identified close to number 4
Low-level DNA results were obtained through LCN from cellular material present in swabs collected from these objects. In my opinion, there exists no proof that supports the theory that any member of the McCann family had contributed DNA to these results.

286/2007-CRL (13) Residual/small fragments in the area of the skirting board.
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (14) Dust/small fragments in the area of the floor tiles
This object was not adequate to perform DNA profile tests.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 13

286/2007-CRL (15) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (16) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 1
A DNA profile that did not match any [of the five members] of the McCann family was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area.

286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2
A DNA profile that appeared to be from at least two sources was obtained through LCN from cellular material recovered in that area. In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques. Breaking [departing] from the principle, for it to have had a DNA contribution from Lino Henriques then the remaining information in the smaller part of the result is too meagre to permit a meaningful interpretation.

286/2007-CRL (18) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 3
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

FSS-GF-679 Emissao 2, Pagina 14

286/2007-CRL (19) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 4
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

286/2007-CRL (20) Fragments of floor tile and grouting
The attempt to obtain a result through LCN from any cellular material that may have been in these fragments was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained, possibly due to the absence of sufficient good quality DNA.

https://themaddiecasefiles.com/the-forensic-science-service-lowe-report-t10.html

Who is  Lino Henriques

None other than the guy tasked with lifting the floor tiles and who apparently was the only forensically recognised contributor to any of the samples collected from the tiled floor of Apartment 5A

Interesting that you stop there given what comes next at "Pagina 15". If you accept that the DNA match from that sample is from Lino Henriques when there were more than one contributor then it stands to reason that the DNA from swab 3A might have originated from Madeleine McCann.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.



https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

The results as we know are inconclusive.... but in the same way so would be a claim tham Lino Henriques is 100% the contributor of the swab taken from grouting between tiles. Of course you're not making such a claim are you Brietta? Just suggesting that one swab might have Lino Henrique's DNA on. Have I understood your post correctly?

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2538 on: November 16, 2021, 12:34:39 AM »
Certainly not after 90 minutes, no.  So if the Met ever took the dog alerts seriously as you suggest then they must have been focusing their attention on the parents, yet the Met is always being criticised by sceptics for obeying orders not to investigate any other theory than abduction so how do you square that circle?

I didn't say the Met definitely took the dog alerts seriously. I said Redwood openly says the Met considered a possibility that Madeleine died in the apartment. I then asked what evidence might have led them to this consideration other than the dog alerts and subsequent forensic evidence collected (which as we know yielded a possible but inconclusive DNA match to Madeleine McCann in more than one sample.

Offline Brietta

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2539 on: November 16, 2021, 12:42:05 AM »
Interesting that you stop there given what comes next at "Pagina 15". If you accept that the DNA match from that sample is from Lino Henriques when there were more than one contributor then it stands to reason that the DNA from swab 3A might have originated from Madeleine McCann.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.



https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

The results as we know are inconclusive.... but in the same way so would be a claim tham Lino Henriques is 100% the contributor of the swab taken from grouting between tiles. Of course you're not making such a claim are you Brietta? Just suggesting that one swab might have Lino Henrique's DNA on. Have I understood your post correctly?

Next time you latch onto something to post about as incorrigibly as you do about DNA - try to pick on a subject you might know something about in that way your posts might not be so foolish.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2540 on: November 16, 2021, 01:00:30 AM »
Next time you latch onto something to post about as incorrigibly as you do about DNA - try to pick on a subject you might know something about in that way your posts might not be so foolish.

With all due respect calling my post "foolish" doesn't actually address what I posted.

The report on the sample taken from the grout has a possible match to Lino Henriques. The report on swab 3A which you neglected to post (you stopped before "Pagina 15") reveals the possibility of a DNA match to Madeleine McCann. Neither match is 100% conclusive, imo.

Offline Carana

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2541 on: November 16, 2021, 02:13:08 AM »
Interesting that you stop there given what comes next at "Pagina 15". If you accept that the DNA match from that sample is from Lino Henriques when there were more than one contributor then it stands to reason that the DNA from swab 3A might have originated from Madeleine McCann.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.



https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

The results as we know are inconclusive.... but in the same way so would be a claim tham Lino Henriques is 100% the contributor of the swab taken from grouting between tiles. Of course you're not making such a claim are you Brietta? Just suggesting that one swab might have Lino Henrique's DNA on. Have I understood your post correctly?

In a summary of one of his multitudinous interviews, Amaral was asked how many were found and he apparently said 5 components. No idea where he got that from, unless he got someone to phone the lab to ask. Anyway, if his information was correct, it means nothing - you and I are highly likely to share that many.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2542 on: November 16, 2021, 07:38:38 AM »
I didn't say the Met definitely took the dog alerts seriously. I said Redwood openly says the Met considered a possibility that Madeleine died in the apartment. I then asked what evidence might have led them to this consideration other than the dog alerts and subsequent forensic evidence collected (which as we know yielded a possible but inconclusive DNA match to Madeleine McCann in more than one sample.
So are you suggesting the Met took the dog alerts seriously or not?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2543 on: November 16, 2021, 08:36:11 AM »
Next time you latch onto something to post about as incorrigibly as you do about DNA - try to pick on a subject you might know something about in that way your posts might not be so foolish.

I think Billy has a point. Neither of the samples were fully matched.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2544 on: November 16, 2021, 08:43:21 AM »
I think Billy has a point. Neither of the samples were fully matched.

I think you and Billy are totally misguided.  In the MM case all four of her family had been present where the DNA, was collected providing an obvious source for the markers

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2545 on: November 16, 2021, 08:57:02 AM »
I think Billy has a point. Neither of the samples were fully matched.
And if it had been a 100% match to Madeleine what would that have told us in your view?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2546 on: November 16, 2021, 10:03:05 AM »
I think you and Billy are totally misguided.  In the MM case all four of her family had been present where the DNA, was collected providing an obvious source for the markers

Are you suggesting that more than one member of the McCann family contributed to a stain?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2547 on: November 16, 2021, 10:04:42 AM »
Are you suggesting that more than one member of the McCann family contributed to a stain?

Could have been any of them... But of no importance imo

Offline G-Unit

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2548 on: November 16, 2021, 10:15:12 AM »
And if it had been a 100% match to Madeleine what would that have told us in your view?

It wasn't, and neither was the match with Lino Henriques, which was my point. Therefore one can't be relied on and not the other.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2549 on: November 16, 2021, 10:25:38 AM »
It wasn't, and neither was the match with Lino Henriques, which was my point. Therefore one can't be relied on and not the other.
So the DNA rsults were of no consequence whatever the results.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".