The timeline revisited

[pathfinder73]

I note from KM's book the following:

- 4th May @ 2am 2 x patrol dogs were deployed

- 4th May @ 8am 4 x search and rescue dogs were deployed having sniffed MM's pink princess blanket for her scent. 

Nothing about areas searched but one would assume the bins were checked?  Does anyone know when the bins were due to be emptied?

That blanket also disappeared 

[Lace]

Maybe I saw a suitable bin in days previous but didn't give it any thought at the time, then, when the need for the disposal arose, I thought "I know where".

I you sure it wasn't after reading Amaral's book where his dog is dead and he says the ground is too hard to bury it so he puts it in the bin and 

[Lace]

I note from KM's book the following:

- 4th May @ 2am 2 x patrol dogs were deployed

- 4th May @ 8am 4 x search and rescue dogs were deployed having sniffed MM's pink princess blanket for her scent. 

Nothing about areas searched but one would assume the bins were checked?  Does anyone know when the bins were due to be emptied?

I asked the same question about the bins Holly,   apparently they were emptied at night,  though I think someone said they had already been emptied,  it's all a bit confusing.    No one mentions anything about the bin
men turning up when the search was on.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's not how long he actually had, it's how long he THOUGHT he had that's significant. Unlke you. he just didn't know.

As you must be aware, anyone contemplating a crime of this nature is unable to see into the future but based on the patterns of checks on the kids on Apartment 5a he would have assumed directly after the last check that another one wasn't due for around thirty minutes.  You seem happy to entertain the idea that the child's father would walk off into the streets of PdL with a corpse, with the intention of hiding it, not knowing who he might encounter or who might see him chucking a body in a bin, but inexplicably baulk at the idea of a more calculated abduction claiming only someone not in their right mind would contemplate it.  The truth of the matter is - you have no idea what such a person would consider worth the risk.  Indeed the risk element may well have been part of the thril. 

[Vertigo Swirl]

I'd like to see a re enactment of someone entering the apartment and taking the child being carried out in under a minute.
How would you gain entry for starters? Not through the patio doors that's for sure IMO

Why not?

[Wonderfulspam]

Why not?

Because the gate, child gate, patio door & curtains were all found undisturbed.

If the abductor entered or exited that way then he had to have closed everything behind him.

The fastidious abductor.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Because the gate, child gate, patio door & curtains were all found undisturbed.

If the abductor entered or exited that way then he had to have closed everything behind him.

The fastidious abductor.

so not out of the question then. 

[Wonderfulspam]

so not out of the question then.

No of course not, the abductor entered through the gate, closed it behind him, passed through the child gate, closing that behind him, opened the patio doors, closing that behind him, then went into the childrens bedroom where he opened the shutters & window, then picked Maddie up off the bed before carrying her out of said window & into obscurity. All in under one minute. Simple.

ETA,
If Smithman is your chosen abductor then he changed Maddies pyjamas in said process.

[ShiningInLuz]

So I have to suppose that you would climb in The Bin and move the rubbish about so you could bury the corpse underneath.

I don't know how wheelie bins work elsewhere, including in Luz, but this is how they work here.

The bins have a large steel tube at the front bottom.  You stick your foot on this and the top pops up, enough to dump your garbage in.

I never look inside a bin.  They get disinfected from time to time, but they are normally very stinky.  They often have hordes of flies inside.  All I want to know is if my rubbish will fit in, or should I use another one.  (We have 3 close by).

The Dispatches 2007 programme linked to by Holly should show if the Luz wheelie bins had that steel foot tube to operate the lid, should anyone care.  That programme is also correct, IMO, that the only way of searching such a large bin is by dumping the contents to somewhere the contents can be picked over.  There is no point whatsoever in simply opening the top and peering in.

[Vertigo Swirl]

No of course not, the abductor entered through the gate, closed it behind him, passed through the child gate, closing that behind him, opened the patio doors, closing that behind him, then went into the childrens bedroom where he opened the shutters & window, then picked Maddie up off the bed before carrying her out of said window & into obscurity. All in under one minute. Simple.

ETA,
If Smithman is your chosen abductor then he changed Maddies pyjamas in said process.

Ascribe realistic numbers of seconds to each of the actions you describe.

[ShiningInLuz]

Ah right, this was a carefully planned in advance disposal was it?  So when was the bin recce carried out then, in your view?  Do they only have large bins on the other side of town, not in the residential apartment blocks?

There were large wheelie bins dotted all over Luz in 2007.

The McCanns passed their nearest group of 3, just a short distance from 5A, at least 4 times.

A local would presumably know of others.

[ShiningInLuz]

I'd like to see a re enactment of someone entering the apartment and taking the child being carried out in under a minute.
How would you gain entry for starters? Not through the patio doors that's for sure IMO

There's absolutely nothing you have done that is illegal or suspicious until ...

- you open the garden gate

or

- you open the front door with a key

or

- you start fiddling with the shutter on the kids bedroom in 5A, from the outside.

[Wonderfulspam]

Ascribe realistic numbers of seconds to each of the actions you describe.

But where to start the clock from exactly?

Does our abductor just spontaneously materialise outside the rear gate?

And at what time does he do so?

[Vertigo Swirl]

But where to start the clock from exactly?

Does our abductor just spontaneously materialise outside the rear gate?

And at what time does he do so?

how about just answering my question first?

[Wonderfulspam]

how about just answering my question first?

Can't be sure really, how fiddly was that child lock on the child gate for example.

Maybe a reconstruction would help.

Besides, supposing the patio door was the point of entry, why waste time closing it & then go leaving the window & shutter wide open?