The timeline revisited

[G-Unit]

Wot?  While Gerry was checking himself?  Gerry went to check because Matthew didn't enter the appartment.  Or do you think that Gerry didn't check at around 9pm?

This is getting so silly now.  Desperation, probably.

What is silly, imo, is making a statement about the time of Matthews check ("This was just before 9pm") as if it's an accepted fact. It's clear from his own testimony that he's not sure of the exact time.

he adds that, on his own initiative, he made a 'listening check' at the bedroom window of MBM and the twins at 21h05. That he limited himself to approach the bedroom window on the outside of the apartment to check if the children were crying or awake.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

At 21H00, MATHEW stood up from the table saying that he would go to see the children. But he did not say that he would go to see the children of the deponent, only after the disappearance of MADELEINE he [MO] having told him [GM] that at 21h00 the external blinds of the children's bedroom window were shut. At 21H05 MATHEW returned, the time at which the deponent left the table to go to check how his children were.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So not desperation, not silliness, just evidence.

[Mr Gray]

What is silly, imo, is making a statement about the time of Matthews check ("This was just before 9pm") as if it's an accepted fact. It's clear from his own testimony that he's not sure of the exact time.

he adds that, on his own initiative, he made a 'listening check' at the bedroom window of MBM and the twins at 21h05. That he limited himself to approach the bedroom window on the outside of the apartment to check if the children were crying or awake.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm

At 21H00, MATHEW stood up from the table saying that he would go to see the children. But he did not say that he would go to see the children of the deponent, only after the disappearance of MADELEINE he [MO] having told him [GM] that at 21h00 the external blinds of the children's bedroom window were shut. At 21H05 MATHEW returned, the time at which the deponent left the table to go to check how his children were.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So not desperation, not silliness, just evidence.

The evidence shows that the mccanns are not being investigated... They have been ruled out

[John]

The evidence shows that the mccanns are not being investigated... They have been ruled out

Not according to the Portuguese Supreme Court they haven't despite their best attempts to claim the contrary. I'm afraid all options are still on the table and will be as long as the missing child remains missing.

Only the person or persons involved know the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann and until that changes there will always be a question mark over those already declared suspects for one reason or another.

[Brietta]

I have no idea what time she was no longer in the apartment. Hypothetically speaking the scenario I was suggesting was that Matt only did one check but this check was done inside the apartment and was before Gerry’s check. Matt didn’t see Madeleine in either bedroom and went back to report this which then explains why Gerry left straight away. Madeleine might still have been inside the apartment in this purely hypothetical situation and she may have been found by Gerry behind the sofa. Hypothetically after this the body  could have been moved to the bedroom cupboard and taken out of the apartment around 10pm at which point whoever, hypothetically, was carrying her was seen by the Smith family. I have absolutely no idea if this hypothetical scenario mirrors any actual events. It does fit one version of the timeline written on the torn out cover of the sticker book.

Don't you think there has been sufficient hypothesis carried out in Madeleine's case.  Amaral was all about many different premises none of which had any chance of being proved because he was just so wrong.

If as he tells us the Judicial Police had gone knocking at Brueckner's door - they must have had a reason for that.

Could it have been because somebody in his team had worked out that as a sex offender Brueckner was worth a visit and if he had been in when the police called he would have had his phone with him.
Work it out from there.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Not according to the Portuguese Supreme Court they haven't despite their best attempts to claim the contrary. I'm afraid all options are still on the table and will be as long as the missing child remains missing.

Only the person or persons involved know the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann and until that changes there will always be a question mark over those already declared suspects for one reason or another.

Including Murat's involvement too then?

[Mr Gray]

Not according to the Portuguese Supreme Court they haven't despite their best attempts to claim the contrary. I'm afraid all options are still on the table and will be as long as the missing child remains missing.

Only the person or persons involved know the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann and until that changes there will always be a question mark over those already declared suspects for one reason or another.

Sorry John but you are wrong. The SC said they hadnt been clesred by the archiving despatch not thst they havent been cleared.

Then we have the point that the SC may be forced to reopen the cade as they imo messed it up

What you are saying is than the Needham family are still suspects... If thats the case

[Brietta]

Not according to the Portuguese Supreme Court they haven't despite their best attempts to claim the contrary. I'm afraid all options are still on the table and will be as long as the missing child remains missing.

Only the person or persons involved know the truth of what happened to Madeleine McCann and until that changes there will always be a question mark over those already declared suspects for one reason or another.

I think you've got that wrong, John.

I thought the judges in the supreme court came to a disgraceful conclusion and it remains to be seen if their meanderings will be ratified by the ECHR.
I don't think they will be.

However things have changed even since they arrived at their judgement.  Amaral didn't know about Brueckner until 2019 when he made haste to leak the information.
He was too cryptic for the press who settled on Ney - Amaral made sure that by 2020 we all knew about the 'scapegoat' Brueckner.

I think the current direction of the investigation casts a very different light on the whole case and the conduct of it right from the word go. 

Whatever motivated him I really do not think Amaral did himself any good by spreading the falsehood of Brueckner and his dread locks to the public domain.  Mind you - I've been wrong before - the allegation about sneaking into the church to hide Madeleine's remains in the old lady's coffin for cremation was risible.  But although iffy, he got away with that one although nobody repeats it too often do they.

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

Don't you think there has been sufficient hypothesis carried out in Madeleine's case.  Amaral was all about many different premises none of which had any chance of being proved because he was just so wrong.

If as he tells us the Judicial Police had gone knocking at Brueckner's door - they must have had a reason for that.

Could it have been because somebody in his team had worked out that as a sex offender Brueckner was worth a visit and if he had been in when the police called he would have had his phone with him.
Work it out from there.

In Amaral’s book he talks about the need to check in known local paedophiles. That suggests he was not closed minded about any of the PJ’s speculative hypotheses. All very normal in an investigation of this nature. Operation Grange obviously accepted the PJ’s methodology as they use this to justify NOT looking at the possibility of parental involvement. IMO OG should not have ruled anything out without re-investigating it again themselves.

[Eleanor]

In Amaral’s book he talks about the need to check in known local paedophiles. That suggests he was not closed minded about any of the PJ’s speculative hypotheses. All very normal in an investigation of this nature. Operation Grange obviously accepted the PJ’s methodology as they use this to justify NOT looking at the possibility of parental involvement. IMO OG should not have ruled anything out without re-investigating it again themselves.

Totally Illogical yet again.  When did Amaral get around to checking on Paedophiles?

[Vertigo Swirl]

In Amaral’s book he talks about the need to check in known local paedophiles. That suggests he was not closed minded about any of the PJ’s speculative hypotheses. All very normal in an investigation of this nature. Operation Grange obviously accepted the PJ’s methodology as they use this to justify NOT looking at the possibility of parental involvement. IMO OG should not have ruled anything out without re-investigating it again themselves.

What did these checks on paedos actually involve apart from knocking on their doors and ticking them off a list even if they were out at the time?

[Eleanor]

What did these checks on paedos actually involve apart from knocking on their doors and ticking them off a list even if they were out at the time?

Did The PJ even have a list?  And how did they know who should be on it?  No one ever told me that The PJ were checking on Paedophiles.  Portugal didn't have Paedophiles in those days.

[Vertigo Swirl]

Did The PJ even have a list?  And how did they know who should be on it?  No one ever told me that The PJ were checking on Paedophiles.  Portugal didn't have Paedophiles in those days.

Good point - how DID they know who were the local paedos?  Word of mouth?  Anyone who looked a bit dodgy? 

[G-Unit]

Sorry John but you are wrong. The SC said they hadnt been clesred by the archiving despatch not thst they havent been cleared.

Then we have the point that the SC may be forced to reopen the cade as they imo messed it up

What you are saying is than the Needham family are still suspects... If thats the case

The SC judges said the McCanns hadn't been cleared by the archiving dispatch only because the McCann's lawyer claimed that it did clear them. If it didn't then they can no longer claim to have been cleared by the Portuguese authorities.

The Supreme Court cannot be forced to reopen the libel case. It can be requested, but the request can be refused.

[Eleanor]

Good point - how DID they know who were the local paedos?  Word of mouth?  Anyone who looked a bit dodgy?

No one has ever said.  This remains a mystery.  But it could have been Amaral trying to remain relevant.

[Eleanor]

The SC judges said the McCanns hadn't been cleared by the archiving dispatch only because the McCann's lawyer claimed that it did clear them. If it didn't then they can no longer claim to have been cleared by the Portuguese authorities.

The Supreme Court cannot be forced to reopen the libel case. It can be requested, but the request can be refused.

Does any McCann Supporter care anymore?

You are going to have a very long wait if you think The Portuguese Supreme Court is of any importance.