The timeline revisited

[Lace]

I re-read Kate’s statements and her book when you mentioned that earlier and I found nothing to suggest she meant the net curtains and not the check ones.

No she just said the curtains were open.   Kate would have noticed if the check curtains were open when she went into the room,  she was only alerted to the window open when the curtains blew up with the wind.  Then she says the window was open the curtains were open and the blind was open.

Anyway I'll have to resume another time. bye

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

No, your deciding to disregard completely his first and freshest recollection to suit your own beliefs.

That’s priceless when posters have often sought to completely devalue and disregard the earliest statements that relate to how 5A was accessed for Gerry’s check. I bet it’s actually on this thread where someone says the earliest PJ statements are completely worthless!!! Matt is much clearer in his rogatory statement when we can see exactly how he is questioned in English by UK officers. He accounts for where the light is coming from in detail. He drops the “it seemed like” language on the specific questions on the curtains, window and shutters.

[Vertigo Swirl]

That’s priceless when posters have often sought to completely devalue and disregard the earliest statements that relate to how 5A was accessed for Gerry’s check. I bet it’s actually on this thread where someone says the earliest PJ statements are completely worthless!!! Matt is much clearer in his rogatory statement when we can see exactly how he is questioned in English by UK officers. He accounts for where the light is coming from in detail. He drops the “it seemed like” language on the specific questions on the curtains, window and shutters.

I have never said the earliest statements are completely worthless, so you must be mistaking me for someone else. 

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

I have never said the earliest statements are completely worthless, so you must be mistaking me for someone else.

I didn’t say you… I said “posters here” and “someone”. It’s perfectly valid to point out that one statement is made when things are fresher in Matt’s mind. However it’s also valid to say his rogatory is clearer when pressed for the specific detail.

[Mr Gray]

That’s priceless when posters have often sought to completely devalue and disregard the earliest statements that relate to how 5A was accessed for Gerry’s check. I bet it’s actually on this thread where someone says the earliest PJ statements are completely worthless!!! Matt is much clearer in his rogatory statement when we can see exactly how he is questioned in English by UK officers. He accounts for where the light is coming from in detail. He drops the “it seemed like” language on the specific questions on the curtains, window and shutters.

The earier statements are not admissible as evidence... So yes worthles.. Asking someone to sign a statement in a foreign language is ridiculous

[Vertigo Swirl]

I didn’t say you… I said “posters here” and “someone”. It’s perfectly valid to point out that one statement is made when things are fresher in Matt’s mind. However it’s also valid to say his rogatory is clearer when pressed for the specific detail.

You mocked my previous post as priceless as if I was somehow contradicting myself, which I wasn’t.  Memories evolve and develop over time, you can read up about it.  They don’t necessarily become more accurate with the passing of time.

[G-Unit]

Are you aware that in his very first statement, ie: the one given within one day of the event it says:

That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open

The parents slept in the master bedroom, and the shutters were raised. According to Rachael he looked in there;

"he said he did wonder where she slept, erm poked his head, well you know kind of looked into Gerry and Kates room, just saw there was a double bed there,"
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

[Vertigo Swirl]

The parents slept in the master bedroom, and the shutters were raised. According to Rachael hr lookrf in there;

"he said he did wonder where she slept, erm poked his head, well you know kind of looked into Gerry and Kates room, just saw there was a double bed there,"
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RACHAEL-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

” At around 9.25pm, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping. That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open.”

[Billy Whizz Fan Club]

” At around 9.25pm, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping. That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open.”

“but perhaps” and “it seemed”…. all very vague …… he clears this vague points up in his rogatory interview when he is questioned in more detail. His language is much clearer.. The curtains are drawn. There is no draught. The window is closed and he strongly implies the shutter is down. I definitely didn’t see raised shutters he states. Common sense tells us that if he found the scene described by Kate he would have been unequivocal about that fact from the start.

[Vertigo Swirl]

“but perhaps” and “it seemed”…. all very vague …… he clears this vague points up in his rogatory interview when he is questioned in more detail. His language is much clearer.. The curtains are drawn. There is no draught. The window is closed and he strongly implies the shutter is down. I definitely didn’t see raised shutters he states. Common sense tells us that if he found the scene described by Kate he would have been unequivocal about that fact from the start.

Yes he makes it all much neater and tidier a year later, a year in which his memory has had plenty of time to try and make sense of the whole nightmarish event but unfortunately in so doing it does not necessarily make his recall more accurate.  Read up on it, it’s fascinating how memories evolve over time.

[Vertigo Swirl]

In both his May 2007 statements he believes the blinds may have been open:


“That he did not enter the bedroom where MBM and the twins were sleeping. He recalls that the bedroom door was half open, making an angle of 50 degrees. He does not know how far away he was from the bedroom door. He recalls having the perception that the window curtains - green in colour - were drawn closed but could not determine if the window was closed or open. Concerning the external blinds he clarifies that he did not see if it was closed or open. He recalls having thought that in that bedroom there was more brightness than there was in his daughter's room (where the external blinds were always fully closed), adding to have had the feeling that that light was coming from the outside - making the point that both were turned in the same direction.

Consequently, he admits the possibility of the light he was perceiving was owing to the blinds being raised, denying however that he was capable of assessing the height at which it may have been.

The question asked, he was sure that, at the time of his first being in the vicinity of MBM's bedroom, reported as 21h05 in the course of which he had approached the the window of that bedroom from the outside for the purpose of an auditory check, the blinds were, in his view, fully closed.

Consequently, he is convinced that at the time of the second check the blinds were more open than on the first check, given that he considers that the light inside the bedroom, undoubtedly coming from the outside, could not have been coming through it [the blinds] if they had been fully closed”.

But you think his memory improved with the passing of 12 months?  Really??

[G-Unit]

No she just said the curtains were open.   Kate would have noticed if the check curtains were open when she went into the room,  she was only alerted to the window open when the curtains blew up with the wind.  Then she says the window was open the curtains were open and the blind was open.

Anyway I'll have to resume another time. bye

If the check curtains were closed she wouldn't have known whether the net curtains behind them were open or closed.

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

According to the group timeline it was Kate who opened the curtain (s) and only then realised there was an open window and shutters.

At this point, she notices the curtains blowing forward with a gust of wind. She runs over, pulls open the curtain and notices the shutter was completely raised, and the window pushed open to the left as far as possible.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

[Brietta]

If the check curtains were closed she wouldn't have known whether the net curtains behind them were open or closed.

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before. She noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

According to the group timeline it was Kate who opened the curtain (s) and only then realised there was an open window and shutters.

At this point, she notices the curtains blowing forward with a gust of wind. She runs over, pulls open the curtain and notices the shutter was completely raised, and the window pushed open to the left as far as possible.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

Can you explain ~ does it reeeeeeeeeeeeally matter 🙄 in the face of the fact that Madeleine was missing from her bed.

[G-Unit]

Can you explain ~ does it reeeeeeeeeeeeally matter 🙄 in the face of the fact that Madeleine was missing from her bed.

To whom?

[Brietta]

To whom?

Once Rebelo checked windows and curtains out and Scotland Yard carried out a forensic check on the solid blue coloured ones ~ curtains don't seem to be a priority for anyone other than your good self and other sceptics.

I think the trick is ~ once an inspection has been carried out ~ proper investigators move on to the next step.  For some obscure reason they don't seem to be stuck in a time warp of 2007.

The evidence for that being that now in 2021 their priority appears to be their prime suspect- Brueckner.