Author Topic: The timeline revisited  (Read 161300 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2355 on: November 11, 2021, 11:06:10 PM »
That's whataboutery. Grime never claimed the alerts proved there was a cadaver in 5A. He said they were indicative that there was a possibility that forensic evidence could be collected from the areas where the dogs alerted. Grime was very clear that it was the evidence that might be collected that was important when working with these dogs. This shows, imo, that he acted professionally. Your only explanation of the alerts has Grime acting with gross professional misconduct for the purpose of feathering his own nest.

Not only does your explanation fly in the face of how Grime conducting himself professionally in this case but it also makes no sense. A series of false alerts do not make his case for the usefulness of EVR dogs and as such would have served him no purpose (assuming, as you seem to, that he wasn't a professional police officer but instead a rogue maverick on the take).

I'm stating facts.. You have said you believe the dogs alerted to cadaver.. So if there was no cadaver what do you think Eddie alerted to
Everything I have said about Grime is 100% true.. You seem to think those true facts point to professional misconduct ..
Those are your words not mine.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2356 on: November 11, 2021, 11:22:05 PM »
I'm stating facts.. You have said you believe the dogs alerted to cadaver.. So if there was no cadaver what do you think Eddie alerted to
Everything I have said about Grime is 100% true.. You seem to think those true facts point to professional misconduct ..
Those are your words not mine.

We're not debating my opinions. We are debating the professional integrity of Martin Grime. Your explanation is that he encouraged false alerts. Such actions would certainly constitute gross professional misconduct. I just don't see that myself.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2357 on: November 11, 2021, 11:31:44 PM »
We're not debating my opinions. We are debating the professional integrity of Martin Grime. Your explanation is that he encouraged false alerts. Such actions would certainly constitute gross professional misconduct. I just don't see that myself.

I've posted facts about Grime and his dogs... Everything I've said is true

The truth seems to be a problem for you.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2358 on: November 12, 2021, 01:20:12 AM »
Dear or dear oh dear.  I suggest you start from the top of page 150 of this thread and read the conversation between us.  There you will see where you mentioned Redwood (who used to work for the Met).  Explain how the PJ knew about Totman from the off, but it was never mentioned either by Amaral in his book to pour cold water on Tannerman or in the final report to rule out JT’s sighting?  Do you think they knew about Totman but decided not to rule out Tannerman by ever publicly mentioning Totman?

I've read all my posts AGAIN this time from Page 150 and there still isn't one which comments on The Met or Redwood apart from a reply to Eleanor which was nothing to do with whether the Met or the PJ had or hadn't been aware of Julian Totman at an early stage. Instead it was a question to ask if she now agreed with Redwood's new direction of travel (new as in 2013!!!). I said to Eleanor:

Quote
So you  don't believe OG / Redwood were correct in claiming that Tannerman/Totman was no longer considered the abductor.... and that Smithman was now their main person of interest?

As I said - I have no reason to doubt Totman's wife's claim that they spoke to the Portuguese Police. The Portuguese Police may have taken the photograph of the pink pyjamas and Ocean Club towel (speculation but it's possible - and seems somewhat unlikely that Totman would keep pyjamas for 6 years just waiting for OG to find him!!).... However, there is the excellent point by G-Unit asking why would Totman have approached the Police before the Tanner sighting was made public? Totman's wife reportedly said:

"We always thought it was Julian who was seen by Jane Tanner. But the national police who investigated didn't get back to us and we don't know if our information was ever passed on."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5698933/Madeleine-McCann-police-spent-four-years-trying-ID-man-GP-said-him.html

So obviously, from that remark, the Totman's reported to the Portuguese Police after the Tanner sighting was known to them. Unlike the fundamentalists here I don't claim to have all the answers!!

With regards to what the UK Police did or did not know here's another report from 2013:

The unnamed dad – spotted in the Praia da Luz resort by McCann family friend Jane Tanner at 9.15pm – was among a number of British witnesses who completed questionnaires for Leicestershire police six years ago.
He is understood to have provided a detailed description of his movements on the night, including the fact he had picked up his own two-year-old daughter from a crèche close to where Madeleine vanished.
But his ‘alibi’ was only looked at this year.
A source said: “He had been clear then that he had picked her up at around the time of the sighting but for whatever reason he was not eliminated as a suspect. The fact the details of the prime suspect have been known all along doesn’t look good.”
Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.
It is not clear if the questionnaires were analysed by the British force or simply forwarded to Portugal.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027

Bear in mind this is just a newspaper story! Nevertheless it does demonstrate that we don't know with any certainty when Totman first accounted for himself, and which Police forces knew that he had.... I would like to know the origin of the pink pyjamas photo, though.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 01:38:32 AM by Billy Whizz Fan Club »

Offline Brietta

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2359 on: November 12, 2021, 01:34:20 AM »
It's the Mirror, not me, which is spreading erroneous opinions which mislead some to believe there is useful mobile phone evidence.

I have no preconceptions of how things should 'pan out', by the way. Nor do I feel I have wasted my time, so I need no pity.

Here's one I made earlier http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg669704#msg669704  Terribly sorry if the link isn't up to your 'exacting' standards but it did originate from Correio de Manhã so that might be more to your liking 😁



Don't his phone records count? and he was already on the police radar but the PJ managed to make a mess of an attempt to interview him.

So I suggest it might have been pertinent for the PJ to track him down and ask why now you see him in Luz on the third but come the fourth - now you don't.

There was also a job of co-ordinating information to be done.  For example did it really take all that time for Ocean Club employees phones to be checked out.
They sure had no problem going through the McCann's records with a fine toothcomb.



A hotel worker may have given the Madeleine McCann suspect the opportunity to break into the family’s apartment on the night she disappeared, it is claimed.
________________________________________________

The hotel employee has been identified by police, said Correio de Manhã. It also claimed the employee had the suspect’s mobile number in his phone.


https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/madeleine-mccann-praia-da-luz-hotel-worker-christian-brueckner-opportunity-441331
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2360 on: November 12, 2021, 02:04:53 AM »
Here's one I made earlier http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg669704#msg669704  Terribly sorry if the link isn't up to your 'exacting' standards but it did originate from Correio de Manhã so that might be more to your liking 😁



Don't his phone records count? and he was already on the police radar but the PJ managed to make a mess of an attempt to interview him.

So I suggest it might have been pertinent for the PJ to track him down and ask why now you see him in Luz on the third but come the fourth - now you don't.

There was also a job of co-ordinating information to be done.  For example did it really take all that time for Ocean Club employees phones to be checked out.
They sure had no problem going through the McCann's records with a fine toothcomb.



A hotel worker may have given the Madeleine McCann suspect the opportunity to break into the family’s apartment on the night she disappeared, it is claimed.
________________________________________________

The hotel employee has been identified by police, said Correio de Manhã. It also claimed the employee had the suspect’s mobile number in his phone.


https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/madeleine-mccann-praia-da-luz-hotel-worker-christian-brueckner-opportunity-441331

Well that's a damning story which helps cement the case against CB. It concludes, "He said the suspect’s connection to Madeleine was so-far based on “circumstantial suspicion”."..............  Circumstantial suspicion - well that report is over a year old.... they now have circumstantial evidence, reportedly. So if CB broke into the apartment you actually believe CB was Tannerman or did you move on to "Smithman"? Neither match CB in appearance.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2361 on: November 12, 2021, 07:21:23 AM »
I've read all my posts AGAIN this time from Page 150 and there still isn't one which comments on The Met or Redwood apart from a reply to Eleanor which was nothing to do with whether the Met or the PJ had or hadn't been aware of Julian Totman at an early stage. Instead it was a question to ask if she now agreed with Redwood's new direction of travel (new as in 2013!!!). I said to Eleanor:

As I said - I have no reason to doubt Totman's wife's claim that they spoke to the Portuguese Police. The Portuguese Police may have taken the photograph of the pink pyjamas and Ocean Club towel (speculation but it's possible - and seems somewhat unlikely that Totman would keep pyjamas for 6 years just waiting for OG to find him!!).... However, there is the excellent point by G-Unit asking why would Totman have approached the Police before the Tanner sighting was made public? Totman's wife reportedly said:

"We always thought it was Julian who was seen by Jane Tanner. But the national police who investigated didn't get back to us and we don't know if our information was ever passed on."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5698933/Madeleine-McCann-police-spent-four-years-trying-ID-man-GP-said-him.html

So obviously, from that remark, the Totman's reported to the Portuguese Police after the Tanner sighting was known to them. Unlike the fundamentalists here I don't claim to have all the answers!!

With regards to what the UK Police did or did not know here's another report from 2013:

The unnamed dad – spotted in the Praia da Luz resort by McCann family friend Jane Tanner at 9.15pm – was among a number of British witnesses who completed questionnaires for Leicestershire police six years ago.
He is understood to have provided a detailed description of his movements on the night, including the fact he had picked up his own two-year-old daughter from a crèche close to where Madeleine vanished.
But his ‘alibi’ was only looked at this year.
A source said: “He had been clear then that he had picked her up at around the time of the sighting but for whatever reason he was not eliminated as a suspect. The fact the details of the prime suspect have been known all along doesn’t look good.”
Following Madeleine’s disappearance, Leicestershire police were responsible for collating all UK-based inquiries at the request of the Portuguese authorities.
It is not clear if the questionnaires were analysed by the British force or simply forwarded to Portugal.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/editors-picks/madeleine-mccann-bungling-police-prime-2965027

Bear in mind this is just a newspaper story! Nevertheless it does demonstrate that we don't know with any certainty when Totman first accounted for himself, and which Police forces knew that he had.... I would like to know the origin of the pink pyjamas photo, though.
G-Unit’s “excellent point” is not so excellent imo.  It was said with the benefit of hindsight and does not mean that they had to have known about JT’s sighting before they went to the police, but that once they heard about her sighting from that point on they always thought it might be Julian.  The bottom line is, there is no evidence of Totman’s statement in the files, no mention of it by Amaral and no mention of it in the final report.  The remaining question is - why not?  I don’t expect an answer obviously.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 07:24:18 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2362 on: November 12, 2021, 07:46:18 AM »
Here's one I made earlier http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11585.msg669704#msg669704  Terribly sorry if the link isn't up to your 'exacting' standards but it did originate from Correio de Manhã so that might be more to your liking 😁



Don't his phone records count? and he was already on the police radar but the PJ managed to make a mess of an attempt to interview him.

So I suggest it might have been pertinent for the PJ to track him down and ask why now you see him in Luz on the third but come the fourth - now you don't.

There was also a job of co-ordinating information to be done.  For example did it really take all that time for Ocean Club employees phones to be checked out.
They sure had no problem going through the McCann's records with a fine toothcomb.



A hotel worker may have given the Madeleine McCann suspect the opportunity to break into the family’s apartment on the night she disappeared, it is claimed.
________________________________________________

The hotel employee has been identified by police, said Correio de Manhã. It also claimed the employee had the suspect’s mobile number in his phone.


https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/madeleine-mccann-praia-da-luz-hotel-worker-christian-brueckner-opportunity-441331

I haven't seen any evidence that Brueckner was in PdL on 3rd and was 'gone' on 4th. Once again newspaper reports quoting an unidentified source are being relied on,  but the 'helpful hotel worker' is just a rumour in my opinion.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline G-Unit

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2363 on: November 12, 2021, 07:53:09 AM »
I'm stating facts.. You have said you believe the dogs alerted to cadaver.. So if there was no cadaver what do you think Eddie alerted to
Everything I have said about Grime is 100% true.. You seem to think those true facts point to professional misconduct ..
Those are your words not mine.

What Grime said and did is factually recorded. It's your interpretations of his words and actions which is opinion, and it's your interpretations which cast doubt upon his professional integrity.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2364 on: November 12, 2021, 07:53:48 AM »
I haven't seen any evidence that Brueckner was in PdL on 3rd and was 'gone' on 4th. Once again newspaper reports quoting an unidentified source are being relied on,  but the 'helpful hotel worker' is just a rumour in my opinion.

I actually predicted that they would have this precise piece of circumstantial evidence... And lots more... To add to the concrete evidence which makes them 100% certain that CB murdered MM.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2365 on: November 12, 2021, 08:03:59 AM »
What Grime said and did is factually recorded. It's your interpretations of his words and actions which is opinion, and it's your interpretations which cast doubt upon his professional integrity.

I listed around four or five facts with no interpretation.... Please get your facts right. Facts which Billy interpreted as misconduct.. Please get you facts right

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2366 on: November 12, 2021, 08:10:57 AM »
What Grime said and did is factually recorded. It's your interpretations of his words and actions which is opinion, and it's your interpretations which cast doubt upon his professional integrity.

This is what Billy objected to

Martin Grime and Harrison came up with a new idea that the, alerts, could be used, as intelligence.. Grime eventually took it one step futher and decided they could be used as evidence.  Grime used PDL to showcase his new business that would eventually earn him almost 100 K in Jersey... Where his contribution to the investigation was heavily critised by an official review.


All facts no interpretation.. You need to get your facts right



Offline Brietta

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2367 on: November 12, 2021, 08:15:04 AM »
I haven't seen any evidence that Brueckner was in PdL on 3rd and was 'gone' on 4th. Once again newspaper reports quoting an unidentified source are being relied on,  but the 'helpful hotel worker' is just a rumour in my opinion.
In my opinion the image promoted by Amaral of the clapped out Westphalia covered with kiddie cartoons would have been a magnet for investigators searching for a missing child on the 4th.

But guess what - nobody searched it.  In fact not a single person mentioned seeing it.  My explanation for that is that it wasn't there to be seen.  And we know again from Amaral that neither was Brueckner.

The fact that you haven't seen any evidence is a bit of a presumption on your part and is of importance in the scheme of things.  Quite simply - it is not.

What is of importance is the evidence held by the police who say they have evidence: are you arguing they have not?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2368 on: November 12, 2021, 08:57:54 AM »
In my opinion the image promoted by Amaral of the clapped out Westphalia covered with kiddie cartoons would have been a magnet for investigators searching for a missing child on the 4th.

But guess what - nobody searched it.  In fact not a single person mentioned seeing it.  My explanation for that is that it wasn't there to be seen.  And we know again from Amaral that neither was Brueckner.

The fact that you haven't seen any evidence is a bit of a presumption on your part and is of importance in the scheme of things.  Quite simply - it is not.

What is of importance is the evidence held by the police who say they have evidence: are you arguing they have not?


Same old, lets fast forward to Grange in 2014 after going back to zero and translating the files, they came up with the three amigos after analysing the phone records , the very same Wolters uses to claim his suspect was around at the time, yet Grange never picked up on him, either they are inept, or they did pick up on him and passed it to the BKA, (there doesn't seem evidence of), if they did then they (BKA) are inept, so all in all its a feck up from the start.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: The timeline revisited
« Reply #2369 on: November 12, 2021, 08:58:57 AM »
I know  why he hasn't been charged even though they have enough evidence to charge now

Of course you do . (&^&
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.