Author Topic: Who Confessed to the Murder?  (Read 3806 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Baz

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2019, 01:42:30 PM »
I’d be interested to learn if the alleged confession was made by one of the 5 individuals Sandra Lean refers to as having “serious mental health conditions?”

And if so - was their mental state assessed?

Did they know what they were saying, or why they were saying it?

Did the details of the alleged confession fit with the known facts of the case?

Was the alleged individual on drugs when they confessed, if so were any questions asked about how drugs might have impacted on their mental health?

Was their mental health properly assessed in the lead up to the confession?

Was their mental health assessed at the time of the confession itself?

All questions asked by Sandra Lean following Simon Halls confession.

I presume that is because the details of Simon's confession have never been made public (right?) and so it's hard for those involved who haven't seen the details to know the veracity of the confession.

I think it's fair enough to want to check these kind of details following a confession. People have been known to falsely confess, after all. I would want to be sure that the police have checked everything before believing believing a confession.

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2019, 01:48:00 PM »
An alleged confession is made to the police and Sandra Leans is told about it?

The first people to be informed of Simon Halls confession (outside of prison) were his victims family.

The police contacted me with a date of when news of the confession was to be published.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2019, 02:24:48 PM »
I presume that is because the details of Simon's confession have never been made public (right?) and so it's hard for those involved who haven't seen the details to know the veracity of the confession.

I think it's fair enough to want to check these kind of details following a confession. People have been known to falsely confess, after all. I would want to be sure that the police have checked everything before believing believing a confession.

They were made public and it wasn’t a false confession. However, what motive would I have to make it up? It would have been the easy option to take the path of least resistance and remain in denial.

Furthermore I spoke with Sandra Lean around the time and gave her a lot of details re disclosures made by Simon Hall. Not only the disclosures he made leading up to and following the confession but also disclosures he’d made to me over the years, as well as the behaviours of his immediate family members over the years (some of which Sandra Lean had witnessed), that ,with hindsight, should have all been red flags.

The annoying thing is of course that trying to discuss the Luke Mitchell case inevitably seems to become a discussion about Sandra Lean which people then use as an excuse for airing their own personal grievances with her.   

It appears to me Sandra Lean is the spearhead of Luke Mitchell’s campaign. How many times has Luke Michell publicly expressed his personal opinions of the case against him, even though he’s had ample opportunity. This IMO is a red flag btw. Luke Mitchell could have written to numerous sources in order to have his say and for this information to be placed in the public domain. The fact he hasn’t I find highly suspicious.

What I find extremely interesting is that a criminologist like Sandra Lean wants a review of the Luke Mitchell case but never once suggested this following the Hall confession? Even though she’s featured the case in her first book “No Smoke - The shocking truth about British justice,”

”Criminology is the scientific study of the nature, extent, management, causes, control, consequences, and prevention of criminal behavior, both on individual and social levels.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 04:16:58 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Baz

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2019, 02:36:21 PM »
They were made public and it wasn’t a false confession. However, what motive would I have to make it up? It would have been the easy option to take the path of least resistance and remain in denial.

It appears to me Sandra Lean is the spearhead of Luke Mitchell’s campaign. How many times has Luke Michell publicly expressed his personal opinions of the case against him, even though he’s had ample opportunity. This IMO is a red flag btw. Luke Mitchell could have written to numerous sources in order to have his say and for this information to be placed in the public domain. The fact he hasn’t I find highly suspicious.

What I find extremely interesting is that a criminologist like Sandra Lean wants a review of the Luke Mitchell case but never once suggested this following the Hall confession? Even though she’s featured the case in her first book “No Smoke - The shocking truth about British justice,”

”Criminology is the scientific study of the nature, extent, management, causes, control, consequences, and prevention of criminal behavior, both on individual and social levels.

I wasn't claiming it was a false confession, only that such things happen. I've never seen the details of Simon's confession published anywhere but then I haven't really searched for them so it's no surprise they may have passed me by.

Quote
The annoying thing is of course that trying to discuss the Luke Mitchell case inevitably seems to become a discussion about Sandra Lean which people then use as an excuse for airing their own personal grievances with her.

I think I'll just stand by this quote rather than getting into yet ANOTHER discussion about someone who I don't know and who is not here to defend herself.   

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2019, 02:42:34 PM »
I wasn't claiming it was a false confession, only that such things happen. I've never seen the details of Simon's confession published anywhere but then I haven't really searched for them so it's no surprise they may have passed me by.
Quote
The annoying thing is of course that trying to discuss the Luke Mitchell case inevitably seems to become a discussion about Sandra Lean which people then use as an excuse for airing their own personal grievances with her.

I think I'll just stand by this quote rather than getting into yet ANOTHER discussion about someone who I don't know and who is not here to defend herself.

Sandra Lean has made no secret she reads this forum and I’ve made no secret I read the JB forum. Therefore it’s her choice if she makes comment or not.

She’s Luke Mitchell’s spokesperson. She’s written a book about the case. I think it would be foolish of anyone to accept her word on face value. Not because I was once acquainted with her but because of cases like Simon Halls and of the lessons learned following his confession and how he was able to con so many - including Sandra Lean!

Again, ”criminology is the study of the nature, extent, management, causes, control, consequences, and prevention of criminal behavior, both on individual and social levels.

Many of the anomalies in the Luke Mitchell case featured in the Simon Hall case. In fact if you were to refer to Sandra Lean’s first book “No Smoke” I think she referred to an imaginary 12 point system; the Mitchell case had all 12, the Hall case 10. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

And for example, in the Simon Hall case Sandra Lean states in her book the prosecution relied on innuendo and conjecture. In actual fact the prosecution chose to pursue a motive of a burglary gone wrong, as opposed to having been sexually motivated, as it turned out to be. What this meant is Simon Hall was only sentenced to a life tariff of 13 years as opposed to 20 plus and a criminologist would surely recognise for example the impact and consequences this would have on not only a convicted prisoner, who’s sexual deviancy and dangerousness had not been recognised, established or addressed but indeed the consequences on society and all those who came into contact with him thereafter.

The risk factors in these cases are often omitted or minimised.

IF a confession has been made in this case and there are no doubts whatsoever to its validity, I’d be interested to learn what safeguards the police and indeed the Luke Mitchell campaign have taken since learning of the alleged details - presuming they have?

Saying someone has confessed is one thing, being 100% certain and doing everything in ones power to show this to be a fact is another.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 04:18:38 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2019, 03:56:44 PM »
If it can be showed Luke Mitchell is factually innocent and the person who allegedly confessed murdered JJ and is at large and a danger to others, and those people claiming so have the courage of their convictions, IMO they would have no fear of the consequences and name them.

Claims of not doing so because of said individual not getting a fair trial seem hypocritical, do they not?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 04:21:34 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2019, 03:22:32 AM »
It's hard to make anything of it when I don't really know any details. If it were really made to the police then I assume they investigated it and dismissed it as false, although given the terrible investigation... who knows!!

Was it made at the time or more recently, after Luke's conviction?

How do we even know someone did confess?

It always seemed to me that the truth about this would only come out if Luke finally admitted guilt or if someone else confessed, either to someone or to the police. So it's intriguing to hear there has been a confession but if it's not something recent then I presume it's not finally the answer I'd been hoping for.

As far as I know, the “confession” was recent.  In fact, according to Sandra herself, the confession has only come to light in the past few years.  I assume she means from around 2015 onwards, perhaps?

If the confession is indeed from Jodi’s brother of whom was clearly heavily shielded during the investigation, as hardly a word of him was ever mentioned in the press, then it’s going to be particularly difficult, if not impossible, to make it admissible in court.  The guy suffered from a psychotic mental illness and was reportedly attending psychiatry appointments.  This individual was supposedly heavily medicated for symptoms of schizophrenia, which were obviously exacerbated by his habitual misuse of cannabis.

I can’t say for certain that this is the individual who confessed, of course, but it isn’t really that difficult to see that he should have been a key suspect.  His violent and spontaneous aggression towards others where knives and “bladed instruments” were used have been documented by Sandra.  The fact that a witness also claimed ‘Stocky Man’ to be a member of Jodi’s family also rules out some other possible suspects, such as your Mark Kanes, Robert Greens and Steven Kelly’s.   Jodi’s brother was substantially older than Jodi at the time of the murder.  I think he was around 20 when she was killed.  This would also support the statistics on murders being more likely committed by adults. 

How do we know if someone confessed?

The short answer is - we don’t.  Someone in prison many years ago confessed to this crime and nothing was ever followed up.  People can confess to anything.  It’s highly likely given the nature of Sandra’s approach to all of this; that being pointing blame at anyone other than Mitchell, that it is actually made up.  The book she has written “Innocents Betrayed” is very much tilted towards Mitchell being innocent, but is actually more about exposing the Scottish Criminal Justice System as being a circus.   Dr Lean is clearly very friendly with Mitchell’s mother, therefore it is impossible to remove the natural bias involved in convicting anyone else other than this woman’s son.

If we take what the book is saying to be true, which I am skeptical as there are many wild claims throughout it which are not supported by evidence, then a confession may indeed exist.   However, Dr Lean can’t even provide proof that Mitchell used the Speaking Clock service on a regular basis.  She continuously claims he phoned this multiple times before the murder, in an attempt to say that the time he phoned it on June 30th 2003 at 16:54 was simply an innocent coincidence.

Bollocks.

She has ultimately failed to produce EVIDENCE of this.  She claims this was the case, but has failed to show any proof, such as phone records.  Surely given the amount of detail already released in her book that such a task would be a formality?  There are far more incriminating statements, opinions and facts in the book than this.  Not only that, Donald Findlay at the appeal court never mentioned Mitchell’s frequent use of this service.  Surely this would have been a massive selling point at an appeal hearing to convince the judges of his innocence?

He never used this as evidence because there wasn’t any.

Take what you want from it all.  Dr Lean has hinted that anyone other than Mitchell could essentially be responsible for Jodi’s death.  In her eyes, it’s never going to be him.  When Corrine Mitchell allowed her underage son to get a tattoo of a skull with flames coming from it, she said “That’s really him”.  That’s him what? A representation of evil? 

Mothers and fathers know their sons and daughters better than anyone.

Neither the mothers behaviour or the codswallop from Dr Sandra Lean can be trusted.   Her personal hunch with the Criminal Justice System is also overwhelming in the book, and her previous track record with Adrian Prout and Simon Hall do not make a very convincing read.   Maybe she will hit it this time.

Third time lucky?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 03:34:40 AM by TheArmchairDetective »

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2019, 10:07:07 AM »
As far as I know, the “confession” was recent.  In fact, according to Sandra herself, the confession has only come to light in the past few years.  I assume she means from around 2015 onwards, perhaps?

If the confession is indeed from Jodi’s brother

Confessed then married? Unlikely.
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2019, 02:45:31 PM »
What do we have on the brother just now? Where is he? What is he doing with his life? Married you say? Where did you find that out?

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2019, 03:07:05 PM »
What do we have on the brother just now? Where is he? What is he doing with his life? Married you say? Where did you find that out?

Married Sept 2015
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2019, 03:09:35 PM »
His violent and spontaneous aggression towards others where knives and “bladed instruments” were used have been documented by Sandra.   

Documented where exactly? What has been documented?
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2019, 03:12:07 PM »
The guy suffered from a psychotic mental illness and was reportedly attending psychiatry appointments. 

Where has this come from?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 03:49:00 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2019, 04:27:55 PM »
Nicholas,

What appears to be the case is a suggestion in the book that this witness informed Police.  Sandra only managed to find out about this after gaining access to the case papers.  Do you mean the SCCRC’s statement of reasons? Or are you referring to case papers? Again, it would appear that nothing was ever done about this identification, which according to Sandra is similar to the treatment of other potential witnesses. Nothing was ever done or all material relating to this wasn’t disclosed?

The revealing part was when the witness described the person, who they claimed was Stocky Man, as being a member of Jodi’s family. Who? What witness? Were they credible? This family member supposedly never left the house that day, which when one looks at what Sandra has included in her book suggests this person is her brother JJ.   This person never had much in the form of an alibi, which off the top of my head was Jodi’s mother who said he very rarely left the house.   He always received transport, assuming due to his illness, and was supposedly at home on the day she was murdered.   

However, there was a period of time that went unaccounted for around five or six o’clock where this person may have been out the house.  Other statements appear to contradict the alibi of his mother. 

Corrine said the person following closely behind Jodi was Stocky Man.

She said this person also confessed.

Sandra never revealed the name, but said in a previous YouTube comment on one of the podcasts that the person who confessed was very well known to Jodi.

A witness said this person was a member of Jodi’s family. They could have been mistaken but of course helps Sandra Lean to tell her version of a story.

When you join the dots and then look a little bit closer at this individual, their background, their character, their age, their mental status, their overall behaviour and the fact a sexual crime was not confirmed when her body was found, it is highly possible that this particular individual may well be the killer. I disagree! They may well have been presented to have you think they look like the killer but you are only getting a version of events told by Sandra Lean.

Thats if we are to believe that a confession has been made at all, and that we join the “Mitchell is Innocent” camp.

It’s not very difficult to come to this conclusion once you read the chapter on this person in her book.  It’s just a theory, but I suspect it is quite an accurate one. Theory not fact

I would be mindful that Sandra Lean is crafty.

She says here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fqQ7lnucUMI @ approx 39.12 (and listen to the inflection in her voice)

For what we’ve been allowed access to I would say there’s no doubt that Luke did not do this

But there’s always gonna be, at the back of your mind, what if they got this.. They would have used it - clearly...


She may sound convincing to some people but most certainly not to me.

And watch her face when she says, “they would have used it - clearly.

Would they? Do you think she’s being deceptive?

I’d have another listen to what Sandra Lean says about “stocky man” if I were you.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 05:42:27 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2019, 08:56:04 PM »
All of the details regarding Joseph Jones are contained within Sandra’s new book Innocents Betrayed, which includes a paragraph or two on his mental health appointments, or the re-scheduling of, should I say, and also that of his propensity to having violent outbursts.  Jodi actually told Luke that her brother had frequent violent outbursts, and his mother Judy also said that her sons behaviour was unpredictable. 

Offline Nicholas

Re: Who Confessed to the Murder?
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2019, 09:04:17 PM »
All of the details regarding Joseph Jones are contained within Sandra’s new book Innocents Betrayed, which includes a paragraph or two on his mental health appointments, or the re-scheduling of, should I say, and also that of his propensity to having violent outbursts.  Jodi actually told Luke that her brother had frequent violent outbursts, and his mother Judy also said that her sons behaviour was unpredictable.

Does she say specifically where the details have come from in order to go into her book? Eg, case papers (witness statements) Luke Mitchell etc?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 09:12:42 PM by Nicholas »
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes