Search And Rescue Dogs Deployed By GNR

[Holly Goodhead]

As usual I'm sure this has all been covered previously but often useful to review.

Can I ask that this thread keeps on topic and doesn't divert to the cadaver dogs.  Thanks.  (I'm bored senseless with the cadaver dogs  ).

I understand these dogs were deployed on 4th May but I'm unsure of the routes taken.  They sniffed MM's blanket for her scent and then went on their way but which way?  Or did they stand firm outside 5A?

[Robittybob1]

What threads already cover this topic. 
The sniffer dogs are just as problematic unless you think they track direction as well as route.

[G-Unit]

The first dogs to arrive were local patrol dogs. They sniffed the blanket and set the route. The S & R dogs from Lisbon sniffed the bath towel at 11pm on 4th and then followed the same route. They repeated the same route some days later. The lower pic shows the route they all took.

[G-Unit]

Daily Mail 7th August 2008. They say they got their information from the released PJ files, but they seem unable to do research because it's completely incorrect. One of the reasons why newspaper reports are not reliable as cites.

Two trained dogs were taken to the family's holiday apartment ...But the dogs were not used until May 8 – five days after Madeleine's disappearance – despite their handlers advising that the search should be done within 48 hours,,,

The dogs lost the trail in the car park, and their Portuguese handlers said they could have been distracted by the smell of nearby bin bags left out in the heat.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1042254/Aerial-photo-shows-sniffer-dog-trail-following-Madeleines-
scent-took-nearby-car-park.html

The dogs were used immediately they arrived, as were two more who arrived the following day. Those two were used again on 8th. No handler mentioned bin bags near the car park.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ARMANDO_MORAIS.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PEDRO_ESTEVES.htm

[Holly Goodhead]

The first dogs to arrive were local patrol dogs. They sniffed the blanket and set the route. The S & R dogs from Lisbon sniffed the bath towel at 11pm on 4th and then followed the same route. They repeated the same route some days later. The lower pic shows the route they all took.

Thanks. So what's the upshot of this?  After all MM travelled paths with her parents so her scent would be expected along certain routes? 

The dogs don't seem to support Tannerman or Smithman?

[G-Unit]

Thanks. So what's the upshot of this?  After all MM travelled paths with her parents so her scent would be expected along certain routes? 

The dogs don't seem to support Tannerman or Smithman?

First of all there's no proof that M's scent was on the pink blanket or the bath towel. I think they should have insisted on having her clothes.

According to the parents they never took that route, although after the dogs were deployed Gerry remembered an  incident which might explain it.

----- That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

The PJ mentioned the dog's findings to Jane Tanner;

JT was confronted by information that the police technical team could find no indication that Madeleine had passed the junction where she indicated that a man had been carrying a girl in his arms
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm

[Holly Goodhead]

So is it safe to say the dogs did not pick up any scent from MM other than areas she had previously been?  Albeit they sniffed a blanket and towel which some believe might not have contained any of MM's scent. 

For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible this would suggest either someone abducted MM from 5A or she woke and wandered and was abducted in the vicinity.  Either way she must have been placed in a car and taken away?  I guess she could have been taken to somewhere nearby eg another apartment.

[jassi]

So is it safe to say the dogs did not pick up any scent from MM other than areas she had previously been?  Albeit they sniffed a blanket and towel which some believe might not have contained any of MM's scent. 

For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible this would suggest either someone abducted MM from 5A or she woke and wandered and was abducted in the vicinity.  Either way she must have been placed in a car and taken away?  I guess she could have been taken to somewhere nearby eg another apartment.

There is no MUST about it. Purely supposition

[Holly Goodhead]

There is no MUST about it. Purely supposition

I preceded the must with "For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible this would suggest..."

For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible then it would suggest MM was abducted by someone from 5A or she woke and wandered and was abducted in the vicinity and either way placed in a car and taken away would it not? 

[barrier]

I preceded the must with "For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible this would suggest..."

For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible then it would suggest MM was abducted by someone from 5A or she woke and wandered and was abducted in the vicinity and either way placed in a car and taken away would it not?

If Madeleine was carried away from 5a why would her scent be prevalent above that who removed her?

[Holly Goodhead]

If Madeleine was carried away from 5a why would her scent be prevalent above that who removed her?

The outcome of the S and R dogs doesn't suggest she was carried away from 5A beyond a waiting car in the immediate vicinity. 

MM's scent would be prevalent above anyone who might have moved her as the dogs had MM's scent from her blanket.  The dogs did not have the scent of any mover.

[ShiningInLuz]

If Madeleine was carried away from 5a why would her scent be prevalent above that who removed her?

The dogs were not given an alleged perpetrator's personal items to sniff.

[barrier]

The dogs were not given an alleged perpetrator's personal items to sniff.

Do they track air born or laid trail.

Not all SAR dogs perform the same type of search. Some dogs are tracking (or trailing) dogs, and others are air-scent (or area-search) dogs. The types overlap, but the distinction between the two guides are the training process and how the dog participates in missions. Tracking dogs work with their nose to the ground. They follow a trail of human scent -- typically heavy skin particles that fall quickly to the ground or onto bushes -- through any type of terrain. These dogs are not searching, they're following: Tracking dogs need a "last seen" starting point, an article with the person's scent on it to work from and an uncontaminated trail.

For tracking, time is an issue. If a child disappears from a school playground or a inmate escapes from a prison, a tracking dog might be called in to follow the person's scent immediately after the disappearance, before other search groups and law-enforcement personnel contaminate the scent trail.




So going by the above if Madeleine was carried away from 5a why would her scent be prevalent above that of her carrier.

Air Borne.

Air-scent dogs, on the other hand, work with their nose in the air. They pick up human scent anywhere in the vicinity -- they don't need a "last seen" starting point, an article to work from or a scent trail, and time is not an issue. Whereas tracking dogs follow a particular scent trail, air-scent dogs pick up a scent carried in air currents and seek out its origin -- the point of greatest concentration.


Edit to add link.

https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog2.htm

[ShiningInLuz]

Do they track air born or laid trail.

Not all SAR dogs perform the same type of search. Some dogs are tracking (or trailing) dogs, and others are air-scent (or area-search) dogs. The types overlap, but the distinction between the two guides are the training process and how the dog participates in missions. Tracking dogs work with their nose to the ground. They follow a trail of human scent -- typically heavy skin particles that fall quickly to the ground or onto bushes -- through any type of terrain. These dogs are not searching, they're following: Tracking dogs need a "last seen" starting point, an article with the person's scent on it to work from and an uncontaminated trail.

For tracking, time is an issue. If a child disappears from a school playground or a inmate escapes from a prison, a tracking dog might be called in to follow the person's scent immediately after the disappearance, before other search groups and law-enforcement personnel contaminate the scent trail.




So going by the above if Madeleine was carried away from 5a why would her scent be prevalent above that of her carrier.

Air Borne.

Air-scent dogs, on the other hand, work with their nose in the air. They pick up human scent anywhere in the vicinity -- they don't need a "last seen" starting point, an article to work from or a scent trail, and time is not an issue. Whereas tracking dogs follow a particular scent trail, air-scent dogs pick up a scent carried in air currents and seek out its origin -- the point of greatest concentration.


Edit to add link.

https://animals.howstuffworks.com/animal-facts/sar-dog2.htm

 

My knowledge of S&R dogs has now increased.

Please see post #2.  The dogs were given personal items to start them off, so it appears they were in tracking mode.

Thinking conversely, air-scent dogs should have been all over the place, due to a high number of people in/around block 5 at deployment time.

[Robittybob1]

So is it safe to say the dogs did not pick up any scent from MM other than areas she had previously been?  Albeit they sniffed a blanket and towel which some believe might not have contained any of MM's scent. 

For those who believe the McCanns were not responsible this would suggest either someone abducted MM from 5A or she woke and wandered and was abducted in the vicinity.  Either way she must have been placed in a car and taken away?  I guess she could have been taken to somewhere nearby eg another apartment.

"safe to say the dogs did not pick up any scent from MM other than areas she had previously been?"
So did Madeleine never leave the apartment via the patio door, why did the dogs on multiple occasions only track her from the front door?