Author Topic: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?  (Read 3561 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #345 on: July 17, 2019, 04:08:12 PM »
That's, why I said it's what, I think... After all.. Half the UK public are below average intelligence

Really?  So the established bell curve is all wrong then?

Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Davel

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #346 on: July 17, 2019, 04:10:13 PM »
Really?  So the established bell curve is all wrong then?

Half the UK public are below average intelligence... That's a fact
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
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Offline sadie

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #347 on: July 17, 2019, 05:55:24 PM »
How can it be easier for someone unauthorised to enter via a locked door when an unlocked door is available?

The locked front door was a gift to an abductor with a copy or original key, maybe from a member of OC personnel. 

-  Door was hidden in a deeply recessed alcove.

-  No-one passed by

-  very dark corner etc.

+ other things listed elsewhere.





The closed, but unlocked patio door

-   had to be accessed by a lit patio area that could be seen from afar.

-   It was overlooked by the Tapas group from only 50 metres away.  Several of them athletes

-   Even  Amaral insisted that no abductor would enter by that door.


No comparison.  Lace is correct IMO;  The front door was safer  and easier, so long as there was a key.


Here we go again:   Were OC personnel involved ?

« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 05:57:27 PM by sadie »

Offline Faithlilly

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #348 on: July 17, 2019, 06:47:12 PM »
That's, why I said it's what, I think... After all.. Half the UK public are below average intelligence

Thatís why the parentís narrative was so successful.
'She ( Kate) did, she brought it up and that she, I mean, this is awful in retrospect as well, she asked what my opinion was on, erm, tut, on whether they were okay leaving the, the doors unlocked, because she was saying 'Is it better that if Madeleine wakes up she can get out and find us or', erm, 'or locking it and, you know, finding that we're not there and the door's locked if she woke up', because Madeleine had woken up, what I thought was the night before. Erm, tut, and it was in that context really, just asking, you know, what I thought. So it was obviously something that was on her mind a bit, huh'.

Offline Davel

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #349 on: July 17, 2019, 06:49:26 PM »
Thatís why the parentís narrative was so successful.

and half are above
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Online Robittybob1

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Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #350 on: July 17, 2019, 07:54:09 PM »
Half the UK public are below average intelligence... That's a fact
You should have said "below the mean intelligence".   With your intelligence being so superior it disrupts the average score IMO.
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Offline Davel

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #351 on: July 17, 2019, 07:59:32 PM »
You should have said "below the mean intelligence".   With your intelligence being so superior it disrupts the average score IMO.

I didnt want to complicate matters...at least you understood the little joke i was making
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #352 on: July 17, 2019, 08:16:01 PM »
You should have said "below the mean intelligence".   With your intelligence being so superior it disrupts the average score IMO.

Mean median.mode!  the skewer and kurtosis it all adds up!!  BI  bring it on.


I wouldn't put the T9 down as very smart  when chosing childminding for their childrenl
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Online Robittybob1

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Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #353 on: July 17, 2019, 08:18:12 PM »
Mean median.mode!  the skewer and kurtosis it all adds up!!  BI  bring it on.


I wouldn't put the T9 down as very smart  when chosing childminding for their childrenl
3 out of 4 families were OK for all the nights.

"Kurtosis" - you got me there.  Is that some sort of disease?

kurtosis
noun STATISTICS
the sharpness of the peak of a frequency-distribution curve.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 08:21:32 PM by Robittybob1 »
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #354 on: July 17, 2019, 08:23:07 PM »
3 out of 4 families were OK for all the nights.

"Kurtosis" - you got me there.  Is that some sort of disease?

kurtosis
noun STATISTICS
the sharpness of the peak of a frequency-distribution curve.

https://brownmath.com/stat/shape.htm
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #355 on: July 17, 2019, 10:19:48 PM »
3 out of 4 families were OK for all the nights.

"Kurtosis" - you got me there.  Is that some sort of disease?

kurtosis
noun STATISTICS
the sharpness of the peak of a frequency-distribution curve.

You need to compare like with like:

McCanns - Unlocked door

O'Brien/Tanner - Locked Doors

O'Brien /Tanner - Locked Doors

Paynes - Locked Doors AND Baby Monitor
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #356 on: July 17, 2019, 10:28:33 PM »
The locked front door was a gift to an abductor with a copy or original key, maybe from a member of OC personnel. 

-  Door was hidden in a deeply recessed alcove.

-  No-one passed by

-  very dark corner etc.

+ other things listed elsewhere.





The closed, but unlocked patio door

-   had to be accessed by a lit patio area that could be seen from afar.

-   It was overlooked by the Tapas group from only 50 metres away.  Several of them athletes

-   Even  Amaral insisted that no abductor would enter by that door.


No comparison.  Lace is correct IMO;  The front door was safer  and easier, so long as there was a key.


Here we go again:   Were OC personnel involved ?

I have made the point previously that the experts in the Dispatches doc homed in on the unlocked door as did former police officer Ian Horrocks.  Why complicate things with OC staff and keys when an unlocked door was available.

How many families have stayed in MW accommodation over the globe over the years?

How many OC staff with access to keys?

How many disappeared children form MW accommodation?  1 which just happened to have an unlocked door.  I rest my case.

Why are you quoting Amaral?  I didn't think you believed his theories? 
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline sadie

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #357 on: July 19, 2019, 01:22:26 AM »
I have made the point previously that the experts in the Dispatches doc homed in on the unlocked door as did former police officer Ian Horrocks.  Why complicate things with OC staff and keys when an unlocked door was available.

How many families have stayed in MW accommodation over the globe over the years?

How many OC staff with access to keys?

How many disappeared children form MW accommodation?  1 which just happened to have an unlocked door.  I rest my case.

Why are you quoting Amaral?  I didn't think you believed his theories?

Holly, the Front door was NOT UNLOCKED.  Please take that on board.  It was not double locked but the latch was such, that nobody trying to enter would be able to get in without a key.



A key was needed to get into 5A via the front door.  It was SINGLE locked like the old Yale front door locks that most of us were happy to leave the security of our homes to.   I can never remember our front door being double locked; it was safe without it.


BTW, were the other Tapas apartments double locked, or single locked likie the Mccanns?



As for Amaral, why shouldn't I use hiim when so many on here are using Kate and Gerry Mccann in a similar way in the reverse direction


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #358 on: July 19, 2019, 08:56:59 AM »
Holly, the Front door was NOT UNLOCKED.  Please take that on board.  It was not double locked but the latch was such, that nobody trying to enter would be able to get in without a key.



A key was needed to get into 5A via the front door.  It was SINGLE locked like the old Yale front door locks that most of us were happy to leave the security of our homes to.   I can never remember our front door being double locked; it was safe without it.


BTW, were the other Tapas apartments double locked, or single locked likie the Mccanns?



As for Amaral, why shouldn't I use hiim when so many on here are using Kate and Gerry Mccann in a similar way in the reverse direction

Errrm where I have said the front door was unlocked?   I appreciate a key was needed to get in via the front door but the point I keep making is that the patio doors were unlocked and numerous others unknown to the McCanns knew this to be so. 

From a security perspective T7 apartments were totally different from the McCanns in that they were totally secure in that to enter without force a key would be required.  This was not the case with the McCanns.

If the perp entered via the unlocked patio doors he/she then had the option of exiting back out via the patio doors or through the front door.

Afaik those who quote Amaral believe the McCanns were directly responsible.  I do not believe the McCanns were directly responsible therefore why would I quote Amaral?  If I believe his theories are all wrong why would I choose to quote him?  Can it be that we say oh he is was right on this but not the other?  No imo this would amount to cherry picking to fit a poorly conceived narrative. 
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline sadie

Re: The 'Find Madeleine Campaign' Helpful or Harmful?
« Reply #359 on: July 19, 2019, 05:09:18 PM »
Errrm where I have said the front door was unlocked?   I appreciate a key was needed to get in via the front door but the point I keep making is that the patio doors were unlocked and numerous others unknown to the McCanns knew this to be so. 

From a security perspective T7 apartments were totally different from the McCanns in that they were totally secure in that to enter without force a key would be required.  This was not the case with the McCanns.

If the perp entered via the unlocked patio doors he/she then had the option of exiting back out via the patio doors or through the front door.

Afaik those who quote Amaral believe the McCanns were directly responsible.  I do not believe the McCanns were directly responsible therefore why would I quote Amaral?  If I believe his theories are all wrong why would I choose to quote him?  Can it be that we say oh he is was right on this but not the other?  No imo this would amount to cherry picking to fit a poorly conceived narrative.

I  appreciate what you are saying, Holly, but from a number of posts on here it has become apparant that a number of people still think that the FRONT door was unlocked.


It wasn't; it was single locked and still needed a key to enter it


How many of the Tapas group had double locked their front doors?  Had they and other residents at Ocean Club just slammed the door as they left, like most of us do at home ?


As for the patio door.

The patio was awash with a gentle light from the street light opposite 5A,   Anyone going there would be seen for a long distance down Rua Dr FGM as well as certain nearby villas and certain flats in block 6 and that balconies on the side of block 6.

And, of course, it was overlooked by the Tapas group from just about 50 metres away



Anyone who was foolish and decided to go in by the patio door was then in a position that he was stuck, with no means of escape if someone came.   This would be the case if the front door was double locked (I think this is correct?) and he had problems opening the shutter and window really quickly.  He also had to be small and very agile to make a hasty exit from such a small window


No wonder that Amaral ruled it out.



This is all IMO and you have right to yours, but please weigh up the odds carefully.



Take your pick:
1.   Front door hidden away, in a pitch black alcove with no one passing and with a key?   OC personnel involvement ? ... and a good escape route inn emergency via patio doors.

or,

2)   Patio entrance awash with a pale light, visible from a good number of viewpoints.  Also just 50 metres away from Madeleines parents and in sight of a group of friends who we call the Tapas seven.  Also, an extremely tricky escape route that might not work.