If The GNR Search & Rescue Dogs Were Not Tracking MM Who Were They Tracking?

[The General]

The above doesn't make sense.  I was meaning afaik Sophie Hook and Alesha MacPhail were removed before they were assaulted and murdered.  Can anyone think of a case where it is known that the assault/murder took place where the young victim was sleeping and then subsequently removed.

No. It's all about motives; in this hypothetical case, the motivation of an obviously unhinged individual. Would an 'abuser' escalate to 'killer' purely to avoid detection at the scene, or detection at a later date? It would depend on specific circumstances. Why not subdue and remove, which would, rather macarbly, suit the abuser further?

[Holly Goodhead]

Yes, understood, but Operation Midland was set up in 2014

Sorry but I still don't understand how Savile or OM connect with the MM case?

[jassi]

No. It's all about motives; in this hypothetical case, the motivation of an obviously unhinged individual. Would an 'abuser' escalate to 'killer' purely to avoid detection at the scene, or detection at a later date? It would depend on specific circumstances. Why not subdue and remove, which would, rather macarbly, suit the abuser further?

Agreed.  An intruder would have no idea when a checker might arrive and would want to get out as soon as possible with a live child.  IMO

[alphonse]

Sorry but I still don't understand how Savile or OM connect with the MM case?

 I don´t think they do at least directly. G Unit mentioned this other case as someone was talking about SY.

[Holly Goodhead]

No. It's all about motives; in this hypothetical case, the motivation of an obviously unhinged individual. Would an 'abuser' escalate to 'killer' purely to avoid detection at the scene, or detection at a later date? It would depend on specific circumstances. Why not subdue and remove, which would, rather macarbly, suit the abuser further?

I agree I was just trying to understand alphonse's thinking that MM's abductor carried out an assault/murder inside 5A and then removed MM. 

[The General]

I agree I was just trying to understand alphonse's thinking that MM's abductor carried out an assault/murder inside 5A and then removed MM.

Well clearly the initial motivation would outweigh the risk of discovery, so we're dealing with a very specific subset of person. Then to perpetrate whichever heinous act was conducted, to then to become situationally aware enough to want to avoid detection at all costs (which is contrary to the initial apparent abandon with which the initial act was conducted) to the point of taking the monumental, additional risk of discovery by carrying away - I'm struggling to contextualise it.
So the motivation to proceed with caution upon entering was to ensure opportunity, although being discovered upon entry would automatically negate opportunity.

[alphonse]

Well clearly the initial motivation would outweigh the risk of discovery, so we're dealing with a very specific subset of person. Then to perpetrate whichever heinous act was conducted, to then to become situationally aware enough to want to avoid detection at all costs (which is contrary to the initial apparent abandon with which the initial act was conducted) to the point of taking the monumental, additional risk of discovery by carrying away - I'm struggling to contextualise it.
So the motivation to proceed with caution upon entering was to ensure opportunity, although being discovered upon entry would automatically negate opportunity.

 Ok, I can explain how I came to my conclusion. The dogs alerted to a route which the father said was taken a couple of days earlier. Ok, next question, is it possible the perp had a key? yes, of course it can´t be ruled out but why wait until the Thursday if he had a key? So, why did the dogs not pick up a more recent scent of Maddie?  Is the perp an organized or disorganized criminal?  My theory would point to him being more organized but of course it is only a hypothesis-- nothing is set in stone. Also, if the perp had a key and was a sex criminal is it not curious that his attack coincides with  a family who freely admitted and told people before hand that they were leaving the flat unlocked??   

[alphonse]

I repeat, you can´t close that front door behind you without a key so as the dogs ignored the Patio doors, I feel Maddie was taken out dead.

[Robittybob1]

Here is a whole thread about the door and the keys

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8979.0

Therefore how can we have Madeleine leaving via the front door and the Tapas 9 finding the front door shut, when it is known by them you need a key to shut that door from the outside? 
There is a solution to this problem.  It is like what Gerry described happening earlier that week.

I repeat, you can´t close that front door behind you without a key so as the dogs ignored the Patio doors, I feel Maddie was taken out dead.

Are you saying through the patio door???  Is that your solution?  But then why would the abductor (of a deceased child) bother to close all the doors and curtains and gates behind him, but leave the kid's bedroom door in the wrong position?

[jassi]

I repeat, you can´t close that front door behind you without a key so as the dogs ignored the Patio doors, I feel Maddie was taken out dead.

I admire your certainty

[Robittybob1]

Agreed.  I'm pretty confident we're right on the basis that numerous people closer to the case than we are have suggested exiting the front door which they're unlikely to have done if it wasn't possible!?  The S&R dogs went this route too.  Unless anything new comes to light my theory is entered via unlocked patio doors and exited out of front door with MM closing it behind.

I believe the window/shutter was either 'staged' by KM as she felt a whole gamut of negative emotions about what had been going on ie "childcare arrangements" or the abductor 'staged' it to throw the McCanns and investigators.

It isn't impossible.  How much more evidence do you need that that door can't be shut from the outside without a key? 

[alphonse]

I admire your certainty

 Well, I have to believe what the Tapas people said about the front door. They were there. I have not stayed in one of those flats. i don´t for one second believe the Mc Canns had anything to do with it. In fact they are both smart people. Imagine for a second they did have something to do with it after an accident [ not what I believe]........why would he offer the PJ the story about having to go after Madeleine one morning around that route the dogs took? Surely he would be keen to let them think this was the ´´abductor´´ going out the front door with Madeleine? Ok, maybe I am missing something...............

[Robittybob1]

I admire your certainty

I second the bit about the front door but I still feel Madeleine walked out the front door on her bare feet and took the path she had taken earlier that week.

[alphonse]

I second the bit about the front door but I still feel Madeleine walked out the front door on her bare feet and took the path she had taken earlier that week.

 How did she close the front door?

[Mr Gray]

How did she close the front door?

Does Rob have a an answer