If The GNR Search & Rescue Dogs Were Not Tracking MM Who Were They Tracking?

[alphonse]

And it knackers the lock eventually, which isn't a consideration if it's a holiday let.
But the point remains, I believe that you could tippie toe out of either door more or less silently.
If you were staggering around outside gone midnight, after a jug of Sangria and a bottle of Rioja, then maybe using the patio door would be useful.

  I feel they used the Patio doors as this was handier. It became a big issue after the tragedy so this noise thing was invented.............................still think they had nothing to do with it, guilt about Madeleine´s plight is a seperate issue in my opinion .

[The General]

Yes you were clear and if I had to guess I would say what you have suggested is possible.

Hence my suggestion that exit noise wasn't the reason. I believe, contrary to the alleged concerns of Kate (ruminating over whether it was safer to let Madeleine get out of an unlocked door if she woke up), the real reason was pure convenience.

[The General]

  I feel they used the Patio doors as this was handier. It became a big issue after the tragedy so this noise thing was invented.............................still think they had nothing to do with it, guilt about Madeleine´s plight is a seperate issue in my opinion .

I agree with the first part. But why lie in the midst of the search for your daughter?

[Holly Goodhead]

I agree completely. I think it highly likely the perp knew about the checking etc. Can I prove it?  Of course not. It just might be more random but it´s not my gut feeling

I don't think randomness came into it.  In the history of mass tourism by Brits to Europe I can't think of another child abducted from a holiday apartment, hotel room etc.  The only reason imo MM was abducted was that the perp knew the apartment was unlocked and it presented a low risk opportunity not to be missed. 

T7 left their children too but the crucial difference was that their apartments were locked. 

Mark Warner offered a listening service but all doors were locked.

I do believe some parents leave children in hotel rooms whilst they eat/drink within the hotel but again in locked rooms. 

Forcing entry for most would-be abductors would present too much risk and will act as a deterrent.  In this case there was no such deterrent.

[Holly Goodhead]

Hence my suggestion that exit noise wasn't the reason. I believe, contrary to the alleged concerns of Kate (ruminating over whether it was safer to let Madeleine get out of an unlocked door if she woke up), the real reason was pure convenience.

But I do believe exiting the front door, which was close to the children's room, the way you have suggested would still generate more noise than sliding the patio doors at the opposite end of the apartment and away from the children's room. 

I would have thought it was easier and more convenient to carry out the checks via the front than enter the side gate, climb the steps, enter the child gate, slide the patio doors, find the gap in the curtains and the walk across the apartment and do the same again upon exit.

[alphonse]

I don't think randomness came into it.  In the history of mass tourism by Brits to Europe I can't think of another child abducted from a holiday apartment, hotel room etc.  The only reason imo MM was abducted was that the perp knew the apartment was unlocked and it presented a low risk opportunity not to be missed. 

T7 left their children too but the crucial difference was that their apartments were locked. 

Mark Warner offered a listening service but all doors were locked.

I do believe some parents leave children in hotel rooms whilst they eat/drink within the hotel but again in locked rooms. 

Forcing entry for most would-be abductors would present too much risk and will act as a deterrent.  In this case there was no such deterrent.

 This narrows the field considerably.   I don´t give weight to the ´´flat watchers´´. Why watch when the patio door is left open??  This just strikes me as people back fitting memories. Totally natural in the circumstances. It was somebody who either knew of the checking first hand or who picked up on it through a throwaway remark

[Robittybob1]

In fact if you look at the cleaner's lock at 45 secs in it provides a better view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pUKiuugYUI&feature=youtu.be&t=45

Well in the PJ photos we are looking at the parts that lock the door, but in the cleaners video we see the hook that is used to open and close it.  It might look different but the latches are essentially the same.

[The General]

I don't think randomness came into it.  In the history of mass tourism by Brits to Europe I can't think of another child abducted from a holiday apartment, hotel room etc.  The only reason imo MM was abducted was that the perp knew the apartment was unlocked and it presented a low risk opportunity not to be missed. 

T7 left their children too but the crucial difference was that their apartments were locked. 

Mark Warner offered a listening service but all doors were locked.

I do believe some parents leave children in hotel rooms whilst they eat/drink within the hotel but again in locked rooms. 

Forcing entry for most would-be abductors would present too much risk and will act as a deterrent.  In this case there was no such deterrent.

So if we take this hypothesis a stage deeper, was there a paedophile suppressing proclivities in the vicinity (and by suppress I mean conveying an image of normality, but holding perverse urges), who stumbled upon an opportunity, who then acted upon it?
Or was it an opportunity that created an abductor?

[Robittybob1]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-happened-praia-da-luz-10256470

 My eyesight is not the best. Is that a door knocker on the left or is it the lock?

There is a round door knob and about 100 mm below that is the  keyhole.

[Holly Goodhead]

This narrows the field considerably.   I don´t give weight to the ´´flat watchers´´. Why watch when the patio door is left open??  This just strikes me as people back fitting memories. Totally natural in the circumstances. It was somebody who either knew of the checking first hand or who picked up on it through a throwaway remark

Yes I agree it was either someone who was in a physical position to observe what was going on and was familiar with the patio doors ie observed the McCanns exiting patio doors and knew they could not be locked from outside so by definition unlocked.  Or as you said someone who observed and then made a throwaway remark which was picked up on.

 

[Robittybob1]

Yes there's a door knob outside.  The McCanns said the reason they exited the patio door at night was to avoid using the front door with the potential to wake the children upon exit.

We are told by the McCanns they put the children to bed at circa 7.30pm and then left for tapas at circa 8.30pm.  They then re-entered and exited via the patio doors to carry out the checks.

OK you say "exit" but where does it say that in the file?

[G-Unit]

Hence my suggestion that exit noise wasn't the reason. I believe, contrary to the alleged concerns of Kate (ruminating over whether it was safer to let Madeleine get out of an unlocked door if she woke up), the real reason was pure convenience.

Kate's concern about the wisdom of the decision to leave the door unlocked was reported by her friends, not alleged. Unless you are implying that the conversation didn't happen?

[Robittybob1]

But surely the door can be closed silently by using the key and pulling it to upon exit?
I'm of the opinion that noise reduction wasn't the reason for leaving via the patio door. It could be argued that sliding the patio door would create more noise - if the front door can be closed with the key turned in the latch and pulled using the knob.

Exactly right.  I think you will find it is the front door is closer to the kid's bedroom.  Closer therefore more likely to wake the kids.

[The General]

Kate's concern about the wisdom of the decision to leave the door unlocked was reported by her friends, not alleged. Unless you are implying that the conversation didn't happen?

No I'm sceptical of the whole premise actually. Knowing what transpired, it's a remarkably prescient comment. In fact it's pivotal, quite irrespective of the fact that it demonstrates a level of culpability Kate would rather us ignore.

[Holly Goodhead]

So if we take this hypothesis a stage deeper, was there a paedophile suppressing proclivities in the vicinity (and by suppress I mean conveying an image of normality, but holding perverse urges), who stumbled upon an opportunity, who then acted upon it?
Or was it an opportunity that created an abductor?

We don't know if the motive was sexual.  As I understand it most paedophiles are not interested in children as young as MM.