What if the Smith family had come forward on the 4th of May?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Quite often it is by a process of elimination when cross checking statements that the police are able to tie the pieces of an investigation together which enables some investigative progress to be made.

The PJ had been given Jane Tanner's witness statement at the earliest opportunity.

They had the creche records to hand which could have led them to any other individual such as Dr Totman legitimately out and about while carrying a child had they bothered to check at the time.

They had absolutely no chance of checking the information the Smith family held for the simple reason that they were not informed about it ... and by the time they were ... it is my opinion that the path the investigation was to take was set in tablets of stone.
Anyway, they paid scant attention to the information given to them by the three Smiths who came over to make statements on 26th May as no action was taken until after the 20th of September when Martin Smith amended his statement.

I think that if the PJ had all the information to hand regarding movement of individuals carrying a female child in Luz as close as possible to the 4th of May, it could have led to a far different outcome than the one we have been left with.

I think we would have had a very different better outcome had those parents paid for childminding/babysitting services.  But hey let's blame the PJ why don't we.

[Robittybob1]

I think we would have had a very different better outcome had those parents paid for childminding/babysitting services.  But hey let's blame the PJ why don't we.

That is absolutely right. IMO it would have never happened if "those parents paid for childminding/babysitting services".

[jassi]

That is absolutely right. IMO it would have never happened if "those parents paid for childminding/babysitting services".

It certainly didn't happen to any of those with robust childcare arrangements

[Robittybob1]

It certainly didn't happen to any of those with robust childcare arrangements

IMO it was more than that.  IMO it would have never happened if "those parents paid for childminding/babysitting services"
In other words it would have never happened.   Hello - no cadaver odour in the room.

[Holly Goodhead]

Totman/Tannerman was confirmed from night creche records. Smithman was not so he also disappeared on 3 May 2007. The Madeleine clone child he was carrying was barefoot. MM was barefoot when she left apartment 5A.

It took SY years to work out that in all probability Tannerman and Dr Totman are one and the same.  With regard to Smithman he may or may not have been connected to the creche and either way be a red herring.  Eg the creche records might be inaccurate or incomplete or someone who worked at the creche MIGHT have said to Smithman (or someone known to him) 'technically you're not eligible to have your child here but as a one off I'll do you a favour'.  On the face of it this would seem pretty harmless but in the event of it coming to light would in all probability be a sackable offence given a child is in the care of a MW employee on duty and on their premises who ought not to be there which would throw up all sorts of problems if the child came to some harm during this period or a fire broke etc, etc. 

Smithman may simply have been a local or a tourist carrying a sleepy child.  Its well known Southern Europeans take children out at night and circa 10 pm is hardly late.  Or simply a tourist unconnected with MW/creche moving a sleepy child from one location to another.  Forensic scientist Dave Barclay in the 2007 C4 docu said Tannerman was in all probability a tourist carrying a sleepy child - it seems he was unaware of the night creche. 

Regardless of where Smithman is from he could easily be oblivious as to how his coming forward could assist.  Had half a dozen people walked around PDL between say 9pm - 10pm on 3rd May they may well have observed several adults walking around with children in arms. 

You say Madeleine clone but there's no evidence whatsoever the Smith family were in a position to make a positive id.     

[sadie]

It took SY years to work out that in all probability Tannerman and Dr Totman are one and the same.  With regard to Smithman he may or may not have been connected to the creche and either way be a red herring.  Eg the creche records might be inaccurate or incomplete or someone who worked at the creche MIGHT have said to Smithman (or someone known to him) 'technically you're not eligible to have your child here but as a one off I'll do you a favour'.  On the face of it this would seem pretty harmless but in the event of it coming to light would in all probability be a sackable offence given a child is in the care of a MW employee on duty and on their premises who ought not to be there which would throw up all sorts of problems if the child came to some harm during this period or a fire broke etc, etc. 

Smithman may simply have been a local or a tourist carrying a sleepy child.  Its well known Southern Europeans take children out at night and circa 10 pm is hardly late.  Or simply a tourist unconnected with MW/creche moving a sleepy child from one location to another. Forensic scientist Dave Barclay in the 2007 C4 docu said Tannerman was in all probability a tourist carrying a sleepy child - it seems he was unaware of the night creche. 


Regardless of where Smithman is from he could easily be oblivious as to how his coming forward could assist.  Had half a dozen people walked around PDL between say 9pm - 10pm on 3rd May they may well have observed several adults walking around with children in arms. 

You say Madeleine clone but there's no evidence whatsoever the Smith family were in a position to make a positive id.     

Smithman was most certainly NOT coming from O.C. Night crech which is situated at the Mini Club, or near, at the main Reception in Rua Direita.  There is a direct main road route from there to the Rua 25 Abril.   Thich is where Aofie saw Smithman.   

Smithman would not even have come down past Martin Smith and the Staff Quarters there - off route.  He wasn't coming from OC creche = FACT

[Holly Goodhead]

Smithman was most certainly NOT coming from O.C. Night crech which is situated at the Mini Club, or near, at the main Reception in Rua Direita.  There is a direct main road route from there to the Rua 25 Abril.   Thich is where Aofie saw Smithman.   

Smithman would not even have come down past Martin Smith and the Staff Quarters there - off route.  He wasn't coming from OC creche = FACT

He may have taken a detour for whatever reason. 

[sadie]

He may have taken a detour for whatever reason.

Do you think it likely that a father carrying a sleeping child on a cool blustery evening would make a detour?

Children, even young children, get heavy after a while


He wasn't coming from the OC creche.  There is nothing up that road, Rua d'Escola, really except for the Staff Quarters   ... and further on the Estrelas appartment bloc ...  then further on still block 5 Ocean Club and Madeleines bedroom.


The whole length of Rua d'Escola, on its Eastern side  past the Smiths, is fenced in waste land or a bit of car park.  Fenced in shaley, hilly waste land and dangerous to walk on, I found.

The route that he appears to have taken is very quiet and as it bends in an eastern direction, (directly towards OC blocks 4 and 5), there is also a school whose playground takes up a portion of the northern part of the road.

 

There's nobody likely at 10pm at the school and just a house or maybe two en route.   Very very quiet route except for maybe the apartment Estrelas and The Staff Quarters.



Personally I think that he had a room, or a friend (accomplis?) at the Staff Quarters and that he called in  there after his pick up vehicle let him down, and he had to walk.   According to the forum, The 3A's, a scream was heard coming from there.  A long sleeved top could have been picked up there too.   Dunno



These are just thoughts and may have no substance, but then again may.
They explain some anomolies in the case, such as the time gap between Janes sighting and The Smiths sighting and the long sleeves.


AIMO

[Eleanor]

He may have taken a detour for whatever reason.

Yer, down through the back lanes, of which there are a few in that direction.

[Miss Taken Identity]

He may have taken a detour for whatever reason.

OK, I have to ask this detouring father and the stay at home  mother let their child go out to a creche without a coat/blanket and slippers?  KNowing they would be collecting their daughter late at night when it gets cold- what.. really?

[Eleanor]

OK, I have to ask this detouring father and the stay at home  mother let their child go out to a creche without a coat/blanket and slippers?  KNowing they would be collecting their daughter late at night when it gets cold- what.. really?

You would have to ask them that question.

[Holly Goodhead]

OK, I have to ask this detouring father and the stay at home  mother let their child go out to a creche without a coat/blanket and slippers?  KNowing they would be collecting their daughter late at night when it gets cold- what.. really?

Dr Totman and his wife didn't seem to think it was a problem and I would suggest if the child felt that uncomfortable he/she would not have been still in his arms but visibly distressed.

[jassi]

Dr Totman and his wife didn't seem to think it was a problem and I would suggest if the child felt that uncomfortable he/she would not have been still in his arms but visibly distressed.

If not in his arms, where would she have been, in your opinion?

[Holly Goodhead]

If not in his arms, where would she have been, in your opinion?

I'm sorry I don't understand?  MTI was questioning the wisdom of the man in the Smith sighting of carrying a child in pj's only, barefooted and without a blanket.  I pointed out the child in the Tanner sighting was dressed the same:  pj's, barefooted and without a blanket. 

[jassi]

I'm sorry I don't understand?  MTI was questioning the wisdom of the man in the Smith sighting of carrying a child in pj's only, barefooted and without a blanket.  I pointed out the child in the Tanner sighting was dressed the same:  pj's, barefooted and without a blanket.

Quite simple. Read the highlight part of the post then answer my question. How would she be being carried if not in his arms ?