Can we judge a person's character by their stance on the case?

[Mr Gray]

Could you give the forum an example of what you are saying?

As I have already said.. In the UK.. The fact that you sign a medical consent form iis not proof you have given consent.
I remember around 10 years ago in Spain some  surgeons wanted to stop treating UK patients s the surgeons were being sued based on the fact the treatment hadn't been explained properly even though they had signed the consent form in Spanish

[G-Unit]

As I have already said.. In the UK.. The fact that you sign a medical consent form iis not proof you have given consent.
I remember around 10 years ago in Spain some  surgeons wanted to stop treating UK patients s the surgeons were being sued based on the fact the treatment hadn't been explained properly even though they had signed the consent form in Spanish

I thought it might be rather more complicated than you implied. Why were these surgeons treating UK patients, and why did they want to stop?

Who was suimg them?

Where was the case brought. In Spain or the UK?

If they didn't explain then under NHS guidlines that wouldn't be informed consent, which is what that signatire implies. Were they working under NHS rules in Spain or does Spain have similar guidelines?

Finally, the contents of the witness statements were explained to the witnesses in Portugal by the interpreters, who signed to testify that it was correct. So not the same at all.

[Mr Gray]

I thought it might be rather more complicated than you implied. Why were these surgeons treating UK patients, and why did they want to stop?

Who was suimg them?

Where was the case brought. In Spain or the UK?

If they didn't explain then under NHS guidlines that wouldn't be informed consent, which is what that signatire implies. Were they working under NHS rules in Spain or does Spain have similar guidelines?

Finally, the contents of the witness statements were explained to the witnesses in Portugal by the interpreters, who signed to testify that it was correct. So not the same at all.

you misunderstand ....a signature in the UK does not confirm informed consent as you seem to think...the spanish case wa s a seperate point

[Mr Gray]

It's a fact that people have raised the possibility, It's not a fact that they're right. No-one can successfully argue against a statement which they signed imo.

Im glad you say ...in your opinion...thats all it is opinion.....and I would say you are totally wrong. Certainly in the UK a patient can argue they have not given consent even though they have signed  a consent form

[Vertigo Swirl]

I thought it might be rather more complicated than you implied. Why were these surgeons treating UK patients, and why did they want to stop?

Who was suimg them?

Where was the case brought. In Spain or the UK?

If they didn't explain then under NHS guidlines that wouldn't be informed consent, which is what that signatire implies. Were they working under NHS rules in Spain or does Spain have similar guidelines?

Finally, the contents of the witness statements were explained to the witnesses in Portugal by the interpreters, who signed to testify that it was correct. So not the same at all.

How did the interpreters communicate the statements back to the McCanns?

[Mr Gray]

I thought it might be rather more complicated than you implied. Why were these surgeons treating UK patients, and why did they want to stop?

Who was suimg them?

Where was the case brought. In Spain or the UK?

If they didn't explain then under NHS guidlines that wouldn't be informed consent, which is what that signatire implies. Were they working under NHS rules in Spain or does Spain have similar guidelines?

Finally, the contents of the witness statements were explained to the witnesses in Portugal by the interpreters, who signed to testify that it was correct. So not the same at all.

so you seem to accept  that a signature on  a consent form may not be valid consent...even though the patient has signed it.

[G-Unit]

I notice that there's been no attempt to answer my questions about these alleged Spanish surgeons, so that seems to be nothing more than a vague rumour.

What bearing does signing a consent form in the UK have on signing a witness statement in Portugal?  All the Portuguese police were required to do was to comply with Portuguese laws.

[Mr Gray]

It's a fact that people have raised the possibility, It's not a fact that they're right. No-one can successfully argue against a statement which they signed imo.

You said no one can argue about a statement they have signed... I disagree.... It's pointless arguing over it no one can prove the point either way

[G-Unit]

You said no one can argue about a statement they have signed... I disagree.... It's pointless arguing over it no one can prove the point either way

The Portuguese police complied with Portuguese law. Your attempts to question their actions has failed. To prive your assertions you would need to show that Portuguese police statements have been successfully legally challenged in Portugal imo.

[Mr Gray]

The Portuguese police complied with Portuguese law. Your attempts to question their actions has failed. To prive your assertions you would need to show that Portuguese police statements have been successfully legally challenged in Portugal imo.

Im questioning the accuracy of the statements. There is no proof that the statements in the files are an accurate account of what the mccans said...that is a fact
There is evidence that they are not accurate ...another fact

[ShiningInLuz]

The Portuguese police complied with Portuguese law. Your attempts to question their actions has failed. To prive your assertions you would need to show that Portuguese police statements have been successfully legally challenged in Portugal imo.

One would need to go a bit further, I think.

One would need to get an instance in which a non-Portuguese speaker (preferably an English speaker) legally challenged in Portugal a statement on the basis that what he had signed as accurate was not what he had stated.

The medical consent procedures in England are a perfect example of a strawman.

[Eleanor]

I notice that there's been no attempt to answer my questions about these alleged Spanish surgeons, so that seems to be nothing more than a vague rumour.

What bearing does signing a consent form in the UK have on signing a witness statement in Portugal?  All the Portuguese police were required to do was to comply with Portuguese laws.

That could well have been the problem.

[Miss Taken Identity]

The Portuguese police complied with Portuguese law. Your attempts to question their actions has failed. To prive your assertions you would need to show that Portuguese police statements have been successfully legally challenged in Portugal imo.

...And to prevent that happening it was probably read over by a legal team,before signing, who's comand of English would be like  a native speaker. They could have refused to sign- they didn't so this is a strawman argument.

Kate got those  files translated and what happened? o yeah  NOTHING.

[Robittybob1]

Im glad you say ...in your opinion...thats all it is opinion.....and I would say you are totally wrong. Certainly in the UK a patient can argue they have not given consent even though they have signed  a consent form

How do patients in the UK give consent then.  Is it a recorded statement of consent?

[Miss Taken Identity]

How do patients in the UK give consent then.  Is it a recorded statement of consent?

They stand in front of a medical team -stick out their tongue - hold up their hand  showing a palm and a say these words.  "I hope to god I don't die- If I do it is my own fault" they sign a parchment paper in their own blood. all very legal and proper like.

OR

Mibeez they don't!   


I think that Spanish post was for entrtainment only.

 Back on track: the charachter assassination of Brenda Layland by supporters is evidence of unbalanced rehtoric as they were not so quick to judge  fellow supporter-a known paedophile- who so involved himself in charachter assassination of sceptics...

To me that speaks volumes of a persons character!