Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation

[Holly Goodhead]

Back by popular demand...

A poster has recently claimed that the McCann parents gave a good deal of information about the sleeping habits of their 3 children which the poster bets they would like to withdraw.

Does anyone know anything about this?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Back by popular demand...

A poster has recently claimed that the McCann parents gave a good deal of information about the sleeping habits of their 3 children which the poster bets they would like to withdraw.

Does anyone know anything about this?

Would that be me  by any chance? 

 The parents had a wall chart at home and gave a star  for not getting up- not sure about the twins in cots.

The parents also made claims that turning on the light or opening the front door could wake them.

The parents claim that their daughter challenged them about Sean being awake  crying and them not being in the flat.

It is writen that Kate left the door unlocked so that their  3 daughter who was  apparently appointed baby sitter- could go and fetch them if the Twins woke up crying.


Admitting to this, it doesn't take a detective to work out the children were not known to have a deep sleep all through the night.  With this information it was noted that it seemed strange that the children chose this night to sleep through a great commotion.

Kate claims she noticed this was indeed strange that not only were the lights on but people were whailing and screeching, walking about...the twins slept through it.

It has been argued that if the mother knows the sleep behaviour of her family she would know if there was something untward. that being said if she felt something ws wrong she should have said something there and then. It was the parents  who suggested drugged children.

The supporters are trying to re write what the parents said and claimed regarding the drug scenario and other matters as if trying to correct any anomolies. it is with that I said 'tongue in cheek'  they  should not have given dubious information that could be challenged- i bet they wished they could withdraw the statements which do not add up.

[Vertigo Swirl]

I bet they haven’t given it a second’s thought for years.  Do you seriously think the McCanns are sat at home fretting about the statements they gave 12 years ago? 

[Holly Goodhead]

It has been claimed on another thread that psychology (which covers the science of sleep) is a pseudo science.  Can someone please tell me what is pseudo about the following course:

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2019/00653/bsc-psychology/all-content/#course-profile

Are we to believe that the likes of John Bowlby and Simon Baron-Cohen, notable psychologists, are pseudo scientists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen

Most of us don't live in the dark ages; there most definitely is a science underlying sleep (and I'm not talking about the comedy film).  Does anyone here actually carry out any research or just post whatever pops into their head?

http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/science

[Vertigo Swirl]

It has been claimed on another thread that psychology (which covers the science of sleep) is a pseudo science.  Can someone please tell me what is pseudo about the following course:

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2019/00653/bsc-psychology/all-content/#course-profile

Are we to believe that the likes of John Bowlby and Simon Baron-Cohen, notable psychologists, are pseudo scientists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen

Most of us don't live in the dark ages; there most definitely is a science underlying sleep (and I'm not talking about the comedy film).  Does anyone here actually carry out any research or just post whatever pops into their head?

http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/science

I wouldn’t worry too much about the opinions of a few ill-informed, ignorant online posters, they’ll say pretty much anything to get a rise out of you.  I wonder what a psychologist would make of such behavior...?

[G-Unit]

As MTI has pointed out, the only reason this has ever been discussed is that Madeleine's mother suggested it. Despite her later claims there's no evidence that the PJ were informed until it was reported by Ricardo Paiva that Kate spoke about it to him "three months after the disappearance."

Strangely, Kate also made several requests, three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5A of the OC, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment, they remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm

Later still, Kate raises the possibility in her book;

I wandered into the children’s bedroom several times to check on Sean and Amelie. They were both lying on their fronts in a kind of crouch, with their heads turned sideways and their knees tucked under their tummies. In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred. They’d always been sound sleepers, but this seemed unnatural. Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. [madeleine]

Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo.

[G-Unit]

It has been claimed on another thread that psychology (which covers the science of sleep) is a pseudo science.  Can someone please tell me what is pseudo about the following course:

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2019/00653/bsc-psychology/all-content/#course-profile

Are we to believe that the likes of John Bowlby and Simon Baron-Cohen, notable psychologists, are pseudo scientists?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen

Most of us don't live in the dark ages; there most definitely is a science underlying sleep (and I'm not talking about the comedy film).  Does anyone here actually carry out any research or just post whatever pops into their head?

http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/science

You may be right and there was nothing wrong with the twins, but is that the point? In my opinion the point is;

Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK?

[Vertigo Swirl]

You may be right and there was nothing wrong with the twins, but is that the point? In my opinion the point is;

Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK?

She did do something to ensure they were OK.  She checked them and monitored them through the night.  She and her friends ar docotrs.  They also had other things to worry about too.  OK, you want to disagree with that I know but I’m not interested in having this argument yet again.

[Holly Goodhead]

As MTI has pointed out, the only reason this has ever been discussed is that Madeleine's mother suggested it. Despite her later claims there's no evidence that the PJ were informed until it was reported by Ricardo Paiva that Kate spoke about it to him "three months after the disappearance."

Strangely, Kate also made several requests, three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5A of the OC, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment, they remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm

Later still, Kate raises the possibility in her book;

I wandered into the children’s bedroom several times to check on Sean and Amelie. They were both lying on their fronts in a kind of crouch, with their heads turned sideways and their knees tucked under their tummies. In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred. They’d always been sound sleepers, but this seemed unnatural. Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. [madeleine]

Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo.

Yes I accept all you say above and thanks for providing the supporting evidence but there's no reason KM would have any understanding of the science of sleep as a medi doctor.  I've previously pointed out it is covered in some basic detail on psychology courses but I think it is covered in more detail on neuroscience courses.

https://www.tuck.com/stages/

Toddlers (1 year – 3 years) With sleeping patterns fully developed, children spend approximately 25% in Stage 3 deep sleep with almost an equal amount of time in REM.  Average sleep time is 9.5-10.5 hours per 24 hour period. Typically naps will reduce to 1 per day most likely occurring early in the afternoon to allow for proper nighttime sleep.

Pre-School (3 – 6 years) Sleep time is similar to that of toddlers, approximately 9-10 hours per 24 hour period.  The afternoon nap usually subsides around 3-4 years for a majority of children. Stage 3 sleep still remains high in relation to total sleep time.

Stage 3 is deep sleep that's difficult to wake from.

https://www.tuck.com/stages/

[G-Unit]

Yes I accept all you say above and thanks for providing the supporting evidence but there's no reason KM would have any understanding of the science of sleep as a medi doctor.  I've previously pointed out it is covered in some basic detail on psychology courses but I think it is covered in more detail on neuroscience courses.

https://www.tuck.com/stages/

Toddlers (1 year – 3 years) With sleeping patterns fully developed, children spend approximately 25% in Stage 3 deep sleep with almost an equal amount of time in REM.  Average sleep time is 9.5-10.5 hours per 24 hour period. Typically naps will reduce to 1 per day most likely occurring early in the afternoon to allow for proper nighttime sleep.

Pre-School (3 – 6 years) Sleep time is similar to that of toddlers, approximately 9-10 hours per 24 hour period.  The afternoon nap usually subsides around 3-4 years for a majority of children. Stage 3 sleep still remains high in relation to total sleep time.

Stage 3 is deep sleep that's difficult to wake from.

https://www.tuck.com/stages/

I see you are still avoiding answering the point I keep raising.

[Holly Goodhead]

I see you are still avoiding answering the point I keep raising.

Probably overlooked or misunderstood rather than avoiding.  Perhaps you could raise the point again and I will endeavour to respond post run, bath and G&T with ice, lemon and pink paper straw 

[pathfinder73]

Madeleine would often get up in the night and go and sleep in the same bed as err Kate and Gerry so I think their sleep patterns were pretty disturbed and I always marvelled at how well, I mean I'd be so much more tired than they were and, and grouchy but they never were.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[G-Unit]

Probably overlooked or misunderstood rather than avoiding.  Perhaps you could raise the point again and I will endeavour to respond post run, bath and G&T with ice, lemon and pink paper straw 

Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo.
 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552579#msg552579

In my opinion the point is;

Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552581#msg552581

[Holly Goodhead]

Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo.
 http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552579#msg552579

In my opinion the point is;

Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK?
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552581#msg552581

So what you're saying is KM claimed from the off MM was abducted and could not understand how he/she entered, carried out MM and neither of the twins were disturbed to the extent KM considered the twins may have been interfered with in some way in which case why not get them checked over medically? 

[G-Unit]

So what you're saying is KM claimed from the off MM was abducted and could not understand how he/she entered, carried out MM and neither of the twins were disturbed to the extent KM considered the twins may have been interfered with in some way in which case why not get them checked over medically?

In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred...this seemed unnatural...Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest
movement, basically, for some sign of life...I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated [madeleine]

The children slept on when taken to the new apartment. They continued to sleep when moved again to the Payne's apartment. Still their mother did...nothing.