Author Topic: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?  (Read 1231 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« on: August 16, 2019, 08:36:43 AM »
The above was brought up in a post on another thread so I thought I would nip it in the bud and start a new thread.

Regardless of what anyone believes has happened to MM the case has highly unusual features for PJ.   Despite this it seems to me they were far more organised than the British police have been in investigating homegrown cases with unusual features. 

I read a comment somewhere that said the Portuguese authorities perceived the early interference of the British authorities as akin to a former colonial power wanting to take over!

As I've said previously if my theory is correct it is absolutely damning for the UK police and this is the reason I am keen to pass all the info sent to Op Grange to head of PJ.   
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Davel

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2019, 08:41:02 AM »
The above was brought up in a post on another thread so I thought I would nip it in the bud and start a new thread.

Regardless of what anyone believes has happened to MM the case has highly unusual features for PJ.   Despite this it seems to me they were far more organised than the British police have been in investigating homegrown cases with unusual features. 

I read a comment somewhere that said the Portuguese authorities perceived the early interference of the British authorities as akin to a former colonial power wanting to take over!

As I've said previously if my theory is correct it is absolutely damning for the UK police and this is the reason I am keen to pass all the info sent to Op Grange to head of PJ.   

I think its absolutely right to criticise teh PJ initial investigation on the basis they completelt misunderstood the evidence in making the mccanns arguidos. This was evidenced in teh archiving report which stated none of the evidence used to make the mccanns arguido was confirmed. I dont see anything damning re the UK police taht can be substantiated

by misunderstanding the evidence the emphasis of the investigation was taken in teh wrong direction
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline barrier

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2019, 08:46:54 AM »
There is a interesting piece in the interview with Rowley where Brunt the interviewee tried to criticise the PJ,Rowley pointed out the PJ collected the mobile phone intel on which Redwood acted upon in going after the 3 amigo's.
An interviewee some time ago  in an interview with Hogan Howe tried to criticise,Howe wouldn't have it.
OG at a not inconsiderable cost translated the files,their help in trying to find out what happened is based on them.
The criticism's will no doubt come from those who haven't a clue on policing methods but are strong on key board semantics.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2019, 08:49:40 AM »
I think its absolutely right to criticise teh PJ initial investigation on the basis they completelt misunderstood the evidence in making the mccanns arguidos. This was evidenced in teh archiving report which stated none of the evidence used to make the mccanns arguido was confirmed. I dont see anything damning re the UK police taht can be substantiated

by misunderstanding the evidence the emphasis of the investigation was taken in teh wrong direction

Were the McCanns made aguidos solely on the 'evidence'.  Robert Murat and other have since been made aguidos without such evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguido

If a person becomes an arguido, they automatically gain certain rights that a witness or suspect would not have.[7] An arguido has the right to be accompanied by a lawyer when questioned.[5] The investigating police may ask the arguido more direct accusatory questions (the answers to which would not be admissible in court if possibly self-incriminatory and asked of a non-arguido) but the arguido must be presented with whatever evidence is held against them,[7] and unlike a witness has the right to remain silent,[8] not to answer any question that may incriminate the person, and does not face legal action for lying.[9]

Witnesses in criminal investigations are legally bound to co-operate with the police and do not have the right to silence and face legal actions if they lie.[7][9] Because of the legal advantages, some individuals apply for arguido status to be given to themselves, e.g. when it would appear that the police suspect them but are trying to use their witness status to extract as much information as possible.[7]

A person who has arguido status has not been formally accused of a crime, arrested or charged,[10] and not all arguidos are subsequently charged.[1] The police may ask a court to restrict an arguido's movement and oblige them to not leave the country.[1] Arguidos cannot change their place of residence, without permission from a court.[10] There is no time limit on the status.[11]

Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2019, 08:54:45 AM »
There is a interesting piece in the interview with Rowley where Brunt the interviewee tried to criticise the PJ,Rowley pointed out the PJ collected the mobile phone intel on which Redwood acted upon in going after the 3 amigo's.
An interviewee some time ago  in an interview with Hogan Howe tried to criticise,Howe wouldn't have it.
OG at a not inconsiderable cost translated the files,their help in trying to find out what happened is based on them.
The criticism's will no doubt come from those who haven't a clue on policing methods but are strong on key board semantics.

According to KM's book the 'find Madeleine' fund covered the cost of translating the files to the tune of some 100k.
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline barrier

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 08:57:19 AM »
The above was brought up in a post on another thread so I thought I would nip it in the bud and start a new thread.

Regardless of what anyone believes has happened to MM the case has highly unusual features for PJ.   Despite this it seems to me they were far more organised than the British police have been in investigating homegrown cases with unusual features. 

I read a comment somewhere that said the Portuguese authorities perceived the early interference of the British authorities as akin to a former colonial power wanting to take over!

As I've said previously if my theory is correct it is absolutely damning for the UK police and this is the reason I am keen to pass all the info sent to Op Grange to head of PJ.   

Scotland Yard ought to be brought into the equation as well,unless its thought they've covered themselves in glory,with one poster less than impressed with Redwood recently.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Offline Davel

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 08:57:29 AM »
Were the McCanns made aguidos solely on the 'evidence'.  Robert Murat and other have since been made aguidos without such evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguido

If a person becomes an arguido, they automatically gain certain rights that a witness or suspect would not have.[7] An arguido has the right to be accompanied by a lawyer when questioned.[5] The investigating police may ask the arguido more direct accusatory questions (the answers to which would not be admissible in court if possibly self-incriminatory and asked of a non-arguido) but the arguido must be presented with whatever evidence is held against them,[7] and unlike a witness has the right to remain silent,[8] not to answer any question that may incriminate the person, and does not face legal action for lying.[9]

Witnesses in criminal investigations are legally bound to co-operate with the police and do not have the right to silence and face legal actions if they lie.[7][9] Because of the legal advantages, some individuals apply for arguido status to be given to themselves, e.g. when it would appear that the police suspect them but are trying to use their witness status to extract as much information as possible.[7]

A person who has arguido status has not been formally accused of a crime, arrested or charged,[10] and not all arguidos are subsequently charged.[1] The police may ask a court to restrict an arguido's movement and oblige them to not leave the country.[1] Arguidos cannot change their place of residence, without permission from a court.[10] There is no time limit on the status.[11]


It actually staes in the archiving report that none of the evidence used to make the mccanns arguidos was confirmed. Its clear from the files taht the pJ did not listen to the advice of the uK police re the evidence.

I have provided an article from the guardian taht has Almeida stating that the main evidence against the mccanns was......am i allowed to say.....when they had been told taht this"evidence" had no evidential value.

we were also told in the Netflix Doc that when the PJ received the report from teh FSS...they only read the first paragraph..re 15 markers., and failed to raed or understand the rest of the report. That is pretty damning to me



To this can be added that, in reality, none of the indications that led to their constitution as arguidos was later confirmed or consolidated. If not, let us see: the information concerning a previous alert of the media before the polices was not confirmed, the traces that were marked by the dogs were not ratified in laboratory, and the initial indications from the above transcribed email, better clarified at a later date, ended up being revealed as innocuous.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 08:59:48 AM by Davel »
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline barrier

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 09:00:41 AM »
According to KM's book the 'find Madeleine' fund covered the cost of translating the files to the tune of some 100k.

A question was asked of Hogan Howe ,What do 30 officers do all day,he responded on the files being translated and about 40,000 documents having to be sifted through,didn't come cheap.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 09:03:11 AM »
It actually staes in the archiving report that none of the evidence used to make the mccanns arguidos was confirmed. Its clear from the files taht the pJ did not listen to the advice of the uK police re the evidence.

I have provided an article from the guardian taht has Almeida stating that the main evidence against the mccanns was......am i allowed to say.....when they had been told taht this"evidence" had no evidential value.

we were also told in the Netflix Doc that when the PJ received the report from teh FSS...they only read the first paragraph..re 15 markers., and failed to raed or understand the rest of the report. That is pretty damning to me

But where's the evidence the McCanns were made aguidos solely on the 'evidence'.  Robert Murat and others were also made aguidos on no such 'evidence'. 

The McCanns may have been made arguidos to allow PJ to pursue a more direct accusatory line of questioning.
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Davel

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2019, 09:06:24 AM »
But where's the evidence the McCanns were made aguidos solely on the 'evidence'.  Robert Murat and others were also made aguidos on no such 'evidence'. 

The McCanns may have been made arguidos to allow PJ to pursue a more direct accusatory line of questioning.

I never said they were made arguido solely on evidence. What I have said is taht the initial PJ investigation misunderstood the evidence...they thought they had proof Maddie died in the apartment...see amaral doc.
Amaral told us taht it wa sthe whole investigation taht shared his views. They were wrong and therfore deserve criticism
mods can delete posts but...
The moving finger writes and having writ moves on...
nor all thy piety nor wit can lure me back to alter but  a line..nor all thy tears wash away  a word of it

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2019, 09:09:18 AM »
A question was asked of Hogan Howe ,What do 30 officers do all day,he responded on the files being translated and about 40,000 documents having to be sifted through,didn't come cheap.

The police will always struggle imo until such time its face represents the population at large.  It is perverse in the extreme that policing is so male dominated. 
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2019, 09:11:07 AM »
I never said they were made arguido solely on evidence. What I have said is taht the initial PJ investigation misunderstood the evidence...they thought they had proof Maddie died in the apartment...see amaral doc.
Amaral told us taht it wa sthe whole investigation taht shared his views. They were wrong and therfore deserve criticism

Please provide supporting docs for your claims above.
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline barrier

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 09:17:52 AM »
The police will always struggle imo until such time its face represents the population at large.  It is perverse in the extreme that policing is so male dominated.

It would be kudos if Wall were to succeed where other's before her have failed,not going to happen in this case though imo.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?       


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2019, 09:20:05 AM »
It would be kudos if Wall were to succeed where other's before her have failed,not going to happen in this case though imo.

She might if my theory is correct.  Sisters working together  ?>)()< 8(>((
Setting the pussy among the pigeons!

Offline barrier

Re: Was Anyone Right To Criticise The Policia Judiciaria?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 09:22:07 AM »
She might if my theory is correct.  Sisters working together  ?>)()< 8(>((


Don't include Commissioner Dick in there and all will be well.
    Can you build an Emerald city with these grains of sand?