The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm

[C.Edwards]

We have an extremely credible statement by a resident of Praia da Luz called Maria Manuela Martins da Silva who was in the habit of visiting the apartment block adjacent to that occupied by the McCanns.  She was extremely well acquainted with the coming and goings and on the very night of the disappearance she had just left the apartment of her boyfriend with him at it turned 10pm.  She is adamant about this because she asked her friend to check the time which was 9.58.

Maria relates that there was no movement of people  at all at this time.  There was a light on at or near the McCann apartment but she did not pay much notice to it.

I would suggest that this was the very instant when Kate discovered that Madeleine had gone.  A moment in time just before all hell broke loose with people out with torches searching everywhere.

Maria infers that she was totally unaware of any commotion and only found out about it the next day.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm

I suggest you read up on the meanings of the words, "infer" and "imply".

And you "suggesting" something doesn't make it a fact.  According to (one of) Gerry McCann's statement(s) Kate didn't leave the table until after 10pm.  10:03pm precisely, in fact.

[John]

I suggest you read up on the meanings of the words, "infer" and "imply".

And you "suggesting" something doesn't make it a fact.  According to (one of) Gerry McCann's statement(s) Kate didn't leave the table until after 10pm.  10:03pm precisely, in fact.

All fits together very nicely and I will add yet further corroboration to that effect in my next batch of independent witness reports which really does put the whole incident into context.

You see, your attempts to muddy the waters and create uncertainty doesn't wash with me C. Edwards.  I am yet to find any statement which bears out what you posted earlier today.  A few rogue statements giving odd timings is always to be expected but the vast majority reveal what actually occurred.  We know the exact chain of events, who told who and at what time to the nearest 5 minutes.

[C.Edwards]

I suggest you read up on the meanings of the words, "infer" and "imply".

And you "suggesting" something doesn't make it a fact.  According to (one of) Gerry McCann's statement(s) Kate didn't leave the table until after 10pm.  10:03pm precisely, in fact.

All fits together very nicely and I will add yet further corroboration to that effect in my next batch of independent witness reports which really does put the whole incident into context.

You see, your attempts to muddy the waters and create uncertainty doesn't wash with me C. Edwards.  I am yet to find any statement which bears out what you posted earlier today.  A few rogue statements giving odd timings is always to be expected but the vast majority reveal what actually occurred.  We know the exact chain of events, who told who and at what time to the nearest 5 minutes.

Yeah, I really muddied the waters by collating all that information on timings from the official files.

Silly me, should do what John does and just make suggestions that fit my pet theory. 

[John]

I suggest you read up on the meanings of the words, "infer" and "imply".

And you "suggesting" something doesn't make it a fact.  According to (one of) Gerry McCann's statement(s) Kate didn't leave the table until after 10pm.  10:03pm precisely, in fact.

All fits together very nicely and I will add yet further corroboration to that effect in my next batch of independent witness reports which really does put the whole incident into context.

You see, your attempts to muddy the waters and create uncertainty doesn't wash with me C. Edwards.  I am yet to find any statement which bears out what you posted earlier today.  A few rogue statements giving odd timings is always to be expected but the vast majority reveal what actually occurred.  We know the exact chain of events, who told who and at what time to the nearest 5 minutes.

Yeah, I really muddied the waters by collating all that information on timings from the official files.

Silly me, should do what John does and just make suggestions that fit my pet theory. 

No...you attempted to muddy the waters as you normally do without providing any substance to your claims.  I thought you didn't believe anything the Tapas 9 say and yet here you are quoting from Gerry McCann when it suits.  Now I would say that that is comical.

[John]

You didn't even get the number of telephone calls made to the police correct.   There were many alert calls made to the police by several people that night, not just the two or more made from reception.

There isn't any mess in the statements, there is confusion by certain individuals but the vast majority are concise and to the point.  Isn't it strange how all these waiters didn't see too much and yet the British nationals who work at the Club were more than helpful.  Do you contemplate a conspiracy with them too?

Maybe the McCann's reach is longer than you think? 

[DCI]

No...you attempted to muddy the waters as you normally do without providing any substance to your claims.  I thought you didn't believe anything the Tapas 9 say and yet here you are quoting from Gerry McCann when it suits.   Now I would say that that is comical.

What?   

I post a load of information all carefully gleaned from the official PJ files with timings galore, all showing the mess there is and how you can't really take anything other than a few of them as being accurate and you say I post things without substance?  Good grief...

I don't think I need to point out how daft your statement looks right now!

By the official files, do you mean the McCann files, translated by Alby? Or the proper files, from original CD's?

[stephen25000]

So what the precise distance from the Smith sighting to the tapas bar ?


As to uncorroborated, I cite the abduction thesis.


Back later.

Precise distance by foot is 350m.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Rua+Dr.+Agostinho+da+Silva&daddr=Rua+da+Escola+Prim%C3%A1ria&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sll=37.08748,-8.731191&sspn=0.003693,0.008256&geocode=FXLuNQIdscZ6_w%3BFXzmNQIdD8J6_w&t=k&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=18&z=18

Interesting - so by Stephen's previous estimation that it could have taken the "drunken" McCanns anything up to 10 minutes to walk from the Tapas Bar to Apt 5A (a speed of around 8 metres a minute),  it would have taken Gerry  about 43 minutes to walk to the place where the Smiths allegedly saw him, say another 10 minutes to disposeof the body and 43 minutes to stagger back - that's the best part of 2 hours gone!

You don't appreciate irony do you Martha.

In the world of the mccann supporters, the mccanns are superhuman.

They can leap tall buildings in a single bound.

'Walk' from the tapas bar to the apartment by bouncing up and down on their stomachs, in the blink of an aye.

Split the atom, that's quango time for Gerry 

Well let's face it, they're magic.

i.e. If you want to play a numbers game in case of timing walking distances, it works both ways.

Erm...I think you've got this spectacularly ar.. about face, Stephen old bean.  It's the McCann detractors who believe that Gerry McCann has the ability to sprint around PdL between mouthfuls of Tapas, carrying a dead body and finding the perfect spot to hide it (in the dark in an unfamiliar place) where it can't be found by dozens of trained officers and dogs and helpful members of the public, and still be back at the bar well before last orders.

Sorry to disappoint you on that one.

Unless the pages have been removed , a few days ago, it was supporters of the Mccanns who were claiming it was normal to walk from the tapas to the apartment in less than a minute. I merely pointed out by the same logic, and with the phantom jogger in operation, the smith sighting cannot be disregarded merely on the distance grounds.

Jog on.   

[DCI]

This is interesting, not seen it before.

08 August 2007
A DROGHEDA family who may hold vital clues as to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have hit out at media distortion of evidence that they have given to Portuguese police.

Maple Drive man Martin Smith, his wife and his children had just left the Kelly bar, which is located approximately 400 metres from the McCanns? apartment at the Ocean Club between 9.50-10pm on the night Madeleine disappeared.

They returned to Ireland the next day, and because the reported abduction times didn?t originally match, they never had cause to examine their journey that night.

As it emerged that Madeleine was abducted around the same time, one of the family members had a flashback of the moment some time later and encouraged the others to jog their memory.

They remembered passing a man walking towards the beach with a child in his arms.

Other than his approximate height and the fact that he was wearing beige clothes they cannot be more specific than that.We are annoyed at how vague our description is,? said the family member.

The family contacted the Portuguese police and flew back over to give evidence.

However, contrary to media reports, Mr Smith had not seen chief suspect Robert Murat in a bar the evening that Madeleine was abducted.He definitely didn?t see him on the night in question,? said a family member.

The family are also mystified at reports that he knows Mr Murat.They met once in a bar about two years ago. My dad would only know Mr Murat by sight,? said the family member.However, from what he knows, he can say that the man who was carrying the child was not Robert Murat.?

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/temp/drogheda-family-hit-out-over-madeleine-case-clue-coverage-27126334.html

[faithlilly]

@ Martha

The last independent witness who places Gerry anywhere in particular before the alarm is Wilkins at approx 9.15. Everything else is open to question.

[stephen25000]

Sorry to disappoint you on that one.

Unless the pages have been removed , a few days ago, it was supporters of the Mccanns who were claiming it was normal to walk from the tapas to the apartment in less than a minute. I merely pointed out by the same logic, and with the phantom jogger in operation, the smith sighting cannot be disregarded merely on the distance grounds.

Jog on.   

Err...no - your jumped in feet first to support CarlyMichelle's assertion that Apartment 5A was a five to ten minute walk from the Tapas Restaurant.  When it was pointed out to you that a normal person walking normally would take less than a minute to walk the actual distance you started going on about people being under the influence of ethanol, it was all most odd.  >@@(*&)

What precisely is walking pace Martha ?

Can you tell me ,again precisely how long it took for any member of the party to walk from the tapas bar to the apartment ?

If you claim to know precisely, you were either there, or you are merely following the party line.

[Carana]

I'd applaud anyone with severe mobility problems at achieving any goal.

However, in this case, I don't understand where Carlymichelle's estimation of time comes from:

well in the mcann case they were not with the children they   were in a tapas bar approx  5 or  10 minutes walk was it not?? 

[AnneGuedes]

carrying a dead body and finding the perfect spot to hide it (in the dark in an unfamiliar place) where it can't be found

Only one perfect spot ?

[Rachel Granada]

Do people seriously imagine that the Smith sighting was Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine's corpse away from the apartment? Come on!

[C.Edwards]

Do people seriously imagine that the Smith sighting was Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine's corpse away from the apartment? Come on!

Do people seriously believe that the Tanner "sighting" was an abductor carrying a sleeping Madeleine from the apartment? Come on!

[debunker]

Do people seriously imagine that the Smith sighting was Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine's corpse away from the apartment? Come on!

Do people seriously believe that the Tanner "sighting" was an abductor carrying a sleeping Madeleine from the apartment? Come on!

That that is not impossible is possible.