Author Topic: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm  (Read 189678 times)

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Offline Albertini

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #525 on: July 16, 2013, 10:59:03 AM »
If those were the clothes Gerry wore when alledgedly he was seen by the Smiths carrying his dead daughter, then why didn't Eddie alert to them?

Knowing that he had been seen by a number of people who could describe him, would he have kept any of the clothing - let alone be photographed wearing them?

Sorry doesn't work for me.

But i though you didn't believe in the reliability of the dogs? Or are you saying you believe in their reliability for not identifying Gerry's clothes but don't believe in them for alerting on Kate's, because that is then cherry picking evidence to support a pre conceived theory.

Do we know if these clothes were in the gym when the dogs were brought in? Do you accept it's possible they weren't?

Please don't get the false impression that i have all the answers to solve this case, i don't and at this stage no one has.

The investigation done by the PJ was incomplete so we can only speculate based on evidence of an incomplete investigation and there are many loose ends which don't add up.

The point that i am making is that all the clothes that were identified Gerry owned, and that one witness who saw this person said the man he saw he was certain with 60-80% certainty was Gerry.

My personal belief is that it is beyond the relams of coincidence and requires further investigation.

What i am not saying is that on the basis of the incomplete investigation it should be automatically and categorically ruled out without further investigation, which appears to be your position.

That's dangerous and in the real world would be described as bad policing.

I am open to all possibilities, i have no pre conceived bias as to the Mccanns guilt or innocence and simply want to understand the evidence gathered so far fully in order to develop as clear a picture as possible of what happened.

AnneGuedes

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #526 on: July 16, 2013, 11:38:14 AM »

You see better the buttons here. The picture seems to have been taken on the 14th or 15th of June.

Offline Benice

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #527 on: July 16, 2013, 11:49:57 AM »
But i though you didn't believe in the reliability of the dogs? Or are you saying you believe in their reliability for not identifying Gerry's clothes but don't believe in them for alerting on Kate's, because that is then cherry picking evidence to support a pre conceived theory.

Do we know if these clothes were in the gym when the dogs were brought in? Do you accept it's possible they weren't?


No you are mistaken Albertini -   I do not doubt the dogs skills.    What I do not accept is that when Eddie alerted it meant only one thing - and that is whatever he alerted to must have been in contact with Madeleine's dead body.  That is simply not true.

However, if Eddie had alerted to a pair of Gerry's trousers which he owned on the 3d and which had been positively identified by the Smiths as being identical to those worn by the man they saw - then that would be pertinent.     But that didn't happen.   Why not?   Gerry had made no attempt to get rid of them as the photograph shows.      The McCann family's whole wardrobe was removed from the Villa and tested - so why would anyone think those trousers were not amongst them.   

And surely those trousers would have carried the strongest scent of all - if he had spent all that time carrying her dead body through PdL to 'wherever' and then disposed of her body.  And yet no alert was made.



   
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #528 on: July 16, 2013, 12:05:58 PM »

You see better the buttons here. The picture seems to have been taken on the 14th or 15th of June.

Where? According to whom?


ETA: After a search, that photo does seem to have been taken on June 16 2007.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 12:24:45 PM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #529 on: July 16, 2013, 12:31:16 PM »
I still don't see what is supposed to be unusual about these trousers.

I have several of these of a similar type.

Offline DCI

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #530 on: July 16, 2013, 01:59:01 PM »
Its amazing how one lttile word, can make such a big difference.

Quote
His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.

And what are "rights"? Creases, stitching detail or what? From that photo, Gerrry's trousers have neither!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 02:05:24 PM by DCI »
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Offline Albertini

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #531 on: July 16, 2013, 03:03:21 PM »
Its amazing how one lttile word, can make such a big difference.

And what are "rights"? Creases, stitching detail or what? From that photo, Gerrry's trousers have neither!

Absolutely! Had she said:

Quote
His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, with no buttons, and without any other decoration.

Then you would have a valid point.

I fear there are semantics and pedantry going on here in attmept to downplay this element of the Smith statement.

Why not simply accept that it is an interesting development and requires further investigation?

Offline Carana

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #532 on: July 16, 2013, 03:13:30 PM »
Its amazing how one lttile word, can make such a big difference.

And what are "rights"? Creases, stitching detail or what? From that photo, Gerrry's trousers have neither!

line 57 "direitas". Wouldn't that mean straights (as opposed to baggy)?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P6/06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1613.jpg
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 03:40:18 PM by Carana »

Offline DCI

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #533 on: July 16, 2013, 03:16:21 PM »
line 57 "direitas". Wouldn't that mean straights (as opposed to baggy)?
[youtube]http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P6/06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1613.jpg[/youtube]

More like this:

The trousers he was wearing were smooth straight-legged trousers, light beige in colour, of a cotton type material, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons and without any patterns.
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Offline Carana

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #534 on: July 16, 2013, 03:24:27 PM »
More like this:

The trousers he was wearing were smooth straight-legged trousers, light beige in colour, of a cotton type material, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons and without any patterns.


Well... quite.

Offline DCI

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #535 on: July 16, 2013, 03:32:33 PM »
Absolutely! Had she said:

Then you would have a valid point.

I fear there are semantics and pedantry going on here in attmept to downplay this element of the Smith statement.

Why not simply accept that it is an interesting development and requires further investigation?

On who's part?

Aofie, would have been the one furthest away from the carrier, she was the only one he didn't pass.

Now, Martin and Peter he passed, say:

MARTIN SMITH
He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut.

PETER DANIEL SMITH
He also does not remember the clothing the individual wore or his shoes.
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Offline Carana

Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #536 on: July 16, 2013, 03:49:52 PM »
Absolutely! Had she said:

Then you would have a valid point.

I fear there are semantics and pedantry going on here in attmept to downplay this element of the Smith statement.

Why not simply accept that it is an interesting development and requires further investigation?


What do you find to be an "interesting development"? The police have had six years to go over all this.

AnneGuedes

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #537 on: July 16, 2013, 04:00:14 PM »
Aoife and her sister in law's son, coming up, saw the carrier in low-angle shot, this could explain she saw buttons and he saw bare feet.

Offline DCI

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #538 on: July 16, 2013, 04:02:14 PM »

What do you find to be an "interesting development"? The police have had six years to go over all this.

Seems it was this bit, Carana.
Quote
His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, with no buttons, and without any other decoration.
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Offline DCI

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Re: The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm
« Reply #539 on: July 16, 2013, 04:04:53 PM »
Aoife and her sister in law's son, coming up, saw the carrier in low-angle shot, this could explain she saw buttons and he saw bare feet.

So where is his statement? The video shows Aofie on her own.

"She does not remember how they were divided [who was where]".
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