Author Topic: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?  (Read 848 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2019, 12:38:56 PM »
I understand you are a never ending storyteller.
what did Barry told his mum ?

What DID Barry tell his mum that’s the question. How often did he see her? What did they talk about exactly? What did Michael Bourke know about his nephew he chose to omit from his book?

Did you ever read this http://www.innocencenetwork.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/INUK-training-programme-2007-Final-2.pdf ?
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Nicholas

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2019, 12:42:01 PM »
As Quote master and Senior Member don’t forget to reread my posts. I am a Modifyer.

Will re read yours when you’ve read all mine how does that sound
A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2019, 01:08:15 PM »
That sounds like the gunshot which killed Jill Dando.

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2019, 12:16:27 PM »
Exact 3 months before the murder of Jill Dando the 150the episode of Crimewatch was broadcasted. The first case that evening was about an unknown stalker in East-London.

Maybe someone knows if this man was caught. His I-fit looks similar to the one of a man seen at a busstop ( line 74) near Putney Station on April 26 1999.

YouTube Crimewatch january 1999. Uploaded by futureisgosub in April 2015.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 09:24:11 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2019, 01:45:26 PM »
Back again to Gowan Avenue 29, the crime scene.

First this link : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6840799/Jill-Dandos-murder-20-years-fresh-witness-accounts-raise-disturbing-questions.html

The other article was written by Julian G. in his role of freelance journalist in June 2008 during the retrial. For me a person of interest, just like Richard Hughes and the obsessive stalker from Crimewatch.
The role of PC Colin Jones worries me too. It was obvious that Jill was dead, but he didn’t secure the scene.

p.s. I will modify some posts.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 01:47:38 PM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2019, 08:03:59 PM »
Jill’s body was lying in such an odd angle with the back of her head against the frontdoor and her chest facing towards the pavement that it seems she collapsed on the spot. That’s what  the eyewitnesses saw at the crime scene before PC Colin Jones  arrived, followed by the paramedic of the first ambulance which arrived 6 minutes after Helen Doble called the police, soon joined by a doctor and paramedic from London Air Ambulance and a second crew of two further paramedic ambulance officers who arrived by car attempting to resuscitate the victim, who already was dead.
The crime scene was completely contaminated and Jill’s body was moved and partial undressed.

The forensic from the autopsy are showing me besides an attack with fysical force from behind also the possibility of using first a stungun before using a small semi automatic pistol, probably a 9mm Beretta to kill her the way the murderer did. Just a thought the reader can ignore, but her blue arms, her blue dead hand as Helen Doble  described it, so short after her death is strange.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

The exact timeline is still misty. The Oxborough team thought the killing took place in 20 to 30 seconds after Jill arrived at her home.
It was her neighbour  Richard Hughes who spoke about  30 seconds between her arrival, the distinctive scream - she sounded quite surprised - and the moment he saw a man leaving the scene after Richard Hughes heard the click of the gardengate. He stated that he walked to the window and opened the shutters to look outside.




« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:12:23 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2019, 12:51:08 PM »
Helen Doble and Vida Saunders stated that Jill’s legs were stretched out and akwardly placed. Her left hand with the engagement ring was stretched out. A very dead blue hand with keys.
They described postmortem details. Livor mortis starts after 20 - 30 minutes. Jill was found 14 to 15 minutes after she was killed according to the MET.  A timeline based on the two witnesses who saw a well dressed man leaving the scene just after 11.30am and a phonecall at 11.31am which was not answered and went to her voicemail.

 
At the contaminated scene the forensic officers found a silver earring, a footprint and a businesscard from an antiques  dealer.
I do wonder if this business card was used as a lockpick tool. There is no information released about the frontdoor and if it was locked or only closed by Jill when she visited her home on Saturday April 24.

The Oxborough team declared that also a hitman could be her killer and the leader of that team was wondering why he, if it was a hitman, didn’t wait till Jill opened the door to force her inside to  the ground in stead of killing her on her doorstep in broad daylight and waited for her behind the hedge
There is no information revealed about who had a key from her home. Maybe the realestate agent or Richard Hughes, who’s older sister made an agreement in buying the house shortly before Jill was killed.
The bruises were on her right arm. The lock of the door is on the left side.

It looked if Jill collapsed instantly after the killer showed himself to her. Jill made a ‘distinctive’ scream which sounded surprising. She probably recognised  her stalker if it was Julian. Or her neighbour, which I can’t exclude till now.
He heard the alarmclick of her car, he heard the sound of high heels, while he was in the bathroom. And after the scream he heard the clang of the gate. He mentioned no exact time this all occurred in his streetinterviews later on with reporters at the scene.  Neither did he talked about seeing Geoffrey Upfill-Brown across the street from his window in the beginning. Later he claimed he did saw him. I couldn’t find anyinformation if Mr. Upfill-Brown was also at the crime scene that morning.
Richard Hughes saw and heard crucial things but not the sound of a constantly ringing cellphone as Helen and Vida heard after returning to the scene. Richard even claimed later that he told the two woman ( Helen and Vida)  the victim was Jill Dando, when he came to his frontdoor after hearing people and noise on the street.

Besides her neighbour could it be the stalker from the 150th Crimewatch  who looked like the description of the man loitering around her house that morning. The stalker with the olive skin, stocky,  thick dark short hair at the time, brushed to the neck


« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 09:41:34 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2019, 11:46:00 AM »
The timeline is still misty, because her cellphone was ringing all the time when Helen Doble and Vida Saunders were at the scene. Apparently no switch to her voicemail.
Her last cellphone data was according to the police at 11.31am. She didn’t answer it because she probably was already dead at that moment. This call was switched to her voicemail.
In the article of the Daily Mail she got also a phonecall when she was in Copes Fishmonger at 11.23am. The caller thought that Jill was still in the shop.  At Fulham Road. In the article is written that she had parked her car around the corner. ( in Dancer Road according n the article)
Copes is situated 778 Fulham Road, which is almost 400 meters from Dancer Road. From that parking spot it is 500 meters to her home in Gowan Avenue.
The walking distance took at least 4 or 5 minutes. The call at 11.31am could have been during the ride home.


« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 03:07:07 PM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2019, 07:38:48 PM »
The testimony of Richard Hughes in court in June 2008. Now the timeline changes. The killing took place at 11.35am within 30 seconds after she parked her car. He didn’t hear her parking her BMW, only the alarm signal. In a few seconds he Richard saw a lot of details after he heard the gate being closed by the assailant. And why would her perpetrator closed the gate after killing her ? Helen Doble can perhaps answer that question.

Even Bob Mills, the comedian , got involved.

His testimony is really unreliable. It was Richard who gave the gunman a possible age. Not a young man as Julian was described by Alan Farthing. In his testimonies he said different things about what he was doing. Working in the front of his house. Taking a shower. Looking through the shutters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7464096.stm

The reader of this thread has to take a look at the images of the crimescene in Gowan Avenue published on the internet to understand what he testified and to see if it was possible what he claimed to have seen within a few seconds.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:28:43 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2019, 08:34:45 AM »
Helen Doble found Jill Dando at 11.44am, when the victim was already dead. So there are 9 minutes between Richard’s sighting at 11.35am of the man he saw walking briskly away after he heard the clang of the gate.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/friend-who-found-jill-dandos-14575157

The MET assumed the killing took place at 11.30am and that thought is linked to the phonecall at 11.31am on her voicemail.
The call at 11.23am could be answered by Jill when she walked from Copes to her car parked in Dancer Road. The caller thought she was still in the shop. If that’s not true the murder could have committed before 11.30am.  The difference with Richard’s timeline is 5 to 6 minutes.
A crucial question is if this eyewitness really saw Geoffrey Upfill-Brown when he looked outside or did he saw him later and heard his sighting afterwards. As the MET stated there was no definitive sighting of the killer.

Crimewatch May 1999 showed what Richard Hughes could see from his window upstairs. The reconstruction showed also 30 Gowan Avenue where mr. Upfill-Brown lived. He didn’t hear a scream but saw a man running away on the other side of the street under the trees. When the man heard the clang of his gate he looked over his shoulder and saw Geoffrey Upfill-Brown in front of his home. A lot of people saw this possible suspect running till he arrived at Bishop’s park on the waterfront. Several witnesses saw him with a cellphone and talking. The only problem was the jacket. Richard saw him in a jacket. The sighting of neighbour from across the street and if he saw also the man wearing a jacket isn’t mentioned or made public.
According to this witness it looks if he was wearing a wig. Al the other tips starting with the postman were about a well dressed man in a dark suit and dark hair. Only the window cleaner spoke about a wel dressed man with blond hair.
This man was wandering around in the neighbourhood since 10.00am. He was linked to a dark blue Rangerover. The well dressed man looked also like a real estate agent.
Richard never spoke about hearing the clang of Geoffrey Upfill-Brown. The person of interest did hear it and looked over his shoulder and slowed down and disappeared behind the builder’s lorry.
From the window upstairs of 29 Gowan Avenue it was not possible to see this part of the pavement.



« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 11:32:32 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2019, 12:58:54 PM »
The testimony of Richard Hughes about the man he said he saw walking away from the scene after hearing the click of the gate again is as I wrote earlier unreliable. Hé described the man as ‘chunky’. Richard gave him a jacket, No one else spoke about a jacket ( Barbour type).
The possible  residue of the gunshot found in Barry George’s jacket played a dominant role in his trial and retrial.
Chief Inspector Hamish Campbell stated that there was no definitive  sighting of the murderer. Geoffrey Upfill-Brown saw no jacket, but perhaps a wig. He was focused at the face and hair of the jogging man.

https://metro.co.uk/2008/06/19/dando-witness-saw-man-like-tv-comic-after-shot-202604/

My conclusion so far is that Richard Hughes didn’t see nobody walking away. Helen Doble can tell us if the gate was closed or not. Till now I didn’t find any  information that she opened the gate during her emergency call. She was asked to see of Jill was still breathing. The police brought the gate to a spot to look for forensic traces.

it’s all about seconds. Mr. Jenkins, another neighbour heard also a scream. He didn’t looked out of his window.
The different stories of Richard Hughes about his whereabouts and what he was doing upstairs makes him unreliable as a witness.Taking  a shower, working at home, opening the shutters after hearing the click of the gate, a mobile phone in his hand, turned to the left, seeing Geoffrey across the street coming out of his front garden and thal all within 5 seconds  is impossible.
Towards the press he said I heard a ‘surprised’ scream but payed no attention to it. Only this statement is probably true.

His story caused a lot of confusion in this investigation. The MET believed he was a reliable eyewitness. For me he is an audio witness.                     

No I-fit was made of the man he and Geoffrey saw that morning.






« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 01:18:38 PM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2019, 09:34:49 AM »
Was the crazed stalker from East-London ( Crimewatch January 26 1999) her murderer ?
A Crimewatch revenge hit ?

https://www.unsolvedcasebook.com/jill-dando/

Here a link to one of the many different statements Richard Hughes produced as an eyewitness.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/apr/26/3

« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 02:19:20 PM by John »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2019, 09:46:52 AM »
The grazed stalker scenario was from the beginning of the investigation a hot issue in this unsolved case. This thread is about Julian, an unknown young man till now who introduced himself to the couple on Saturday evening April 24 1999 at the charity ball of the British Legion. If he was also Jill’s killer we still don’t know. In my research I found another person of interest connected to stalking and Jill Dando. The Crimewatch hitman from Beckton, East-London.
Barry George was a schizofrenic creep but acquitted. Alan Farthing and his fiancé were confronted with Julian and his disturbing details. Also a schizofrenic creep, just like the Beckton man who puts himself in an untenable position caused by obsessive love. He lost control and power. His only respons could have been a revenge double bind with Jill Dando, who fall in love with Alan Farthing and became his fiancée January 30 1999.
The Radio Times cover in the same week she was murdered with Jill in a leather jumpsuit could be a trigger for both persons of interest. If there was contact with her neighbours can’t be eliminated. Both persons knew also that her home was for sale. The cars of Jill and Fiona Hughes look the same. The reader can see her car on the internet parked in front of the house of  eyewitness Geoffrey Upfill-Brown. Also a cabriolet BMW.
At the day of the killing there was also a black car parked behind Jill’s car. The Beckton stalker had a dark blue or black Mercedes or another make. The license number is hopefully checked by the MET.

It was Jill Dando who could become his target because she handled his case on national television. This stalker had to make a radical decision after being caught in a web of pathological double binds . The rejection, the (fire) incident in his car with his victim who he said loved so much and who he didn’t wanted to harm as the reconstruction showed, is a crucial event that changed his behavior in the months after the 150th episode of Crimewatch when the hunt began.
Is he caught or still under the radar ? The MET could have the answer or overlooked the possibility or didn’t they considered it.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/24/stalking-behaviour-murders-study-shows

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178912000687

https://www.stalkingriskprofile.com/what-is-stalking/types-of-stalking

« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 09:29:58 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2019, 10:52:47 AM »
“The Dando Webb” video made by Jud Charlton shows in part two at 4.16 minutes eyewitness Richard Hughes in his first street interview after the killing where he said he heard a scream and saw a man walking away calmly from the scene. Later he spoke as we know about walking briskly away.
Geoffrey Upfill-Brown saw the man running away and looking over his shoulder and slowing down when he heard the click of the gate 30 Gowan Avenue and saw Jill’s neighbour across the street. So we have two different sightings. In the short interview he spoke also about the two ladies Helen Doble and Vida Saunders who were at the scene.

In this video was also revealed  that the neighbours of Jill Dando were never questioned by police after the killing.
About the e-fit which was published one spoke of a blond suspect, but the police wanted a dark brown haired man and changed the e-fit of the man at the busstop. (Line 74 Putney bridge) If it’s true or not I don’t know.
So the killer could have been wearing a wig. The window cleaner also spoke about a blond haired man loitering around Gowan Avenue. Barry Lindsey,  another witness (?) saw Jill was confronted with a man and heard seconds later a shot.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jill-dando-murder-witness-comes-2071046

Another witness, Helen Scott, saw a man the night before Jill was killed. In the Old Bailey she testified but didn’t identified Barry George being the man she saw. She also spoke about a man with a slightly olive skin. Several witnesses spoke about a man who looked like he was of Mediterranean origin.
If he wore a wig as Geoffrey Upfill-Brown thought he did,  he maybe also have used make up to mislead witnesess and to create confusion to escape from justice.

Here a link to Helen Scott’s statement in court.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/jilldando



« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 11:57:18 AM by Youp69 »

Offline Youp69

Re: Did ‘Julian’ killed Jill Dando ?
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2019, 12:13:58 PM »
The timeline and other names of people who were at the crime scene before the ambulance and police officer Colin Jones and his colleague arrived.
Helen Doble called 999 with her own mobile at 11.44am. Other sources suggested that Helen Doble used Jill’s mobile at 11.42am.
Jennifer Felgate, another neighbour, was interviewed that afternoon by a journalist ( Carlton ITV London Tonight news)  and stated that she heard a shot or a car backfiring. She didn’t hear a scream. Richard Hughes used in this interview not the word  ‘calmly’ but ‘briskly’ and  that the man did not look flustered at all.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/dando-murder-a-car-alarm-bleeped-then-came-the-attack-1089826.html
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 12:33:36 PM by Youp69 »