Author Topic: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?  (Read 267864 times)

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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1080 on: June 23, 2020, 06:35:48 PM »
there is evidence the parents are not involved...and no real evidence they are

It’s never been established who Smithman was. It’s possible he was carrying MM. He may have known a third party who had the means to conceal a body (even temporarily to buy some time).

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1081 on: June 23, 2020, 06:40:56 PM »
there is evidence the parents are not involved...and no real evidence they are

It’s never been established who Smithman was. It’s possible he was carrying MM. He may have known a third party who had the means to conceal a body (even temporarily to buy some time).

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1082 on: June 23, 2020, 06:54:04 PM »
Investigator's opinions can't be kept out of investigations, but they still need to back them up using evidence. OG have offered no evidence whatsoever to support their opinion that the parents are telling the truth. Simon Foy tried by saying "they were where they were" when Madeleine disappeared. He seems to have overlooked the fact that the time of the disappearance is unknown.
They don’t need to back them up or offer evidence to you, because despite what you may think you are neither judge nor jury in this case.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1083 on: June 23, 2020, 07:51:23 PM »
They don’t need to back them up or offer evidence to you, because despite what you may think you are neither judge nor jury in this case.

I'm sure they know that many people doubt the parents. If they have evidence that they couldn't be involved in Madeleine's disappearance it's heartless of them not to share it and end the speculation imo.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
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Ignore and break the rules
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1084 on: June 23, 2020, 08:12:04 PM »
I'm sure they know that many people doubt the parents. If they have evidence that they couldn't be involved in Madeleine's disappearance it's heartless of them not to share it and end the speculation imo.


You say many...how many. I doubt anything SY could say would make  a scrap of difference
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 08:17:18 PM by Davel »

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1085 on: June 23, 2020, 08:13:46 PM »
I'm sure they know that many people doubt the parents. If they have evidence that they couldn't be involved in Madeleine's disappearance it's heartless of them not to share it and end the speculation imo.
LOL.  As if there is anything at all that the police could say that would alter the opinion of that small spiteful band of [ censored word ]s. 
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1086 on: June 23, 2020, 11:51:22 PM »
Speculation.....there is still no evidence...let alone proof taht the alerts by eddie were correct.

It's more plausible, imo, than your belief that Grime deliberately encouraged false alerts. Such a suggestion makes no sense.

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1087 on: June 23, 2020, 11:52:23 PM »
Just a reminder ~ ZAMPO and Thomas Quick the mass murderer who wasn't.  Read all about it on a forum near to you.

In the Quick case none of the police-trained dogs gave false alerts.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1088 on: June 23, 2020, 11:56:19 PM »
In the Quick case none of the police-trained dogs gave false alerts.
Cite please.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Brietta

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1089 on: June 24, 2020, 01:12:37 AM »
It's more plausible, imo, than your belief that Grime deliberately encouraged false alerts. Such a suggestion makes no sense.
I think you may very well have that wrong and I think you need a cite to back up your accusation.

HOW THE CLEVER HANS EFFECT LEADS TO ERRORS IN CANINE SCENT DETECTION

In a 2011 study by Lisa Lit et al., 18 experienced professional law enforcement canine detection teams completed searches under various conditions, but there was no target odor at all. Further, all handlers were misinformed; they were told that the searches might contain up to three target scents and that markers indicating the position of the scent would be present in two conditions. Additionally, to distract the dogs, experimenters hid sausages and a tennis ball, giving handlers no information about those conditions, but marking the location of the distraction with a piece of red paper.

Handlers were grouped according to the following 4 conditions:

(1)No food/toy distraction or marking (no influence)
(2)Marking tape, no food/toy distraction (handler influence)
(3)Unmarked food/toy distraction (dog influence)
(4)Marked food/toy (combined human and dog influence)

In this experiment, the dogs were trained to “alert” by sitting, barking, and both sitting and barking when the target odor was found. Upon observing the alert behavior, the handler would inform the proctor, who recorded the location.

Teams false alerted 225 times, despite the fact that there was no target odor when the dog offered their ‘‘alert’’ behavior in the absence of odor.

There were fewer false alerts in unmarked areas.

The results suggest that handler beliefs affected the performance of their dog, and that the paper markers were more likely to cause false alerts (from human interference) than olfactory distraction by sausages (dog influence).

https://spring2020.iaabcjournal.org/the-clever-hans-effect-scent-detection/
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1090 on: June 24, 2020, 08:15:23 AM »
I'm sure they know that many people doubt the parents. If they have evidence that they couldn't be involved in Madeleine's disappearance it's heartless of them not to share it and end the speculation imo.

You are asking for proof of a negative...its like a bunch of jehovas witnesses asking scientists for proof god doesnt exist...and thats how I see you. when are you going to understand that the justice system...apart from the injustice system in Portugal...does not require poeple to prove their innocence
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 08:19:09 AM by Davel »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1091 on: June 24, 2020, 08:33:23 AM »
There's no 'real' evidence against anyone imo. All the evidence is weak.

Im glad you accept theres no real evidence against teh McCanns...and any evidence is weak...that really is progress

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1092 on: June 24, 2020, 08:39:23 AM »
The PJ knew as much about how cadaver dogs work as you do. (not much)

Could you explain what the so called  alert to Cuddle Cat was all about...I might not be an expert on scent dogs but I can smell a rat if theres one about

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1093 on: June 24, 2020, 08:42:00 AM »
Could you explain what the so called  alert to Cuddle Cat was all about...I might not be an expert on scent dogs but I can smell a rat if theres one about
What are you like with mice?
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?
« Reply #1094 on: June 24, 2020, 08:44:14 AM »
What are you like with mice?

There may be a problem with translation...smelling a rat is an english expression