Dog Alerts- Evidence or not?

[The General]

Isn't this a dog evidence thread?

I'm actually pinning my hopes on that glorious looking Malinois finding something to pin on CB; another cache of filth or something - keep the beast locked up for as long as possible.
Alas, all the signals coming out of das plod are pointing the opposite way.

[Mr Gray]

He might be right. Did he even say that? Do you have a reference I could read for that?
Is there some issue with the dog alerts now? Did I miss a memo?

Yes he said it...either his book or his mockumentaery...he also said eddie found a body under a flagstone in germany...teh go to  man for misinformation. the problem is people trust what he says

theres no issue with the alerts...no evidential value....no inference can be drawn from them.

[Carana]

This was filmed around April 2007 just before Madeleine disappeared.  There is an exact date somewhere which I think can be confirmed because the three people he volunteered to transport were taking part in a competition organised by a radio station.

No cartoon characters painted on the van either.

March 30, 2007 according to the Mail.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576985/Madeleine-McCann-suspect-Christian-Brueckner-kidnap-campervan-weeks-vanished.html

[Carana]

A pal suggested Brückner could help.

Why would someone with his history be so generous as to drive all the way to Malaga to pick up 3 strangers on a €10-a-day budget challenge and take them to Vera?

Was he offloading or picking up drugs at the same time?

Where did he go after he dropped them off?

[Brietta]

A pal suggested Brückner could help.

Why would someone with his history be so generous as to drive all the way to Malaga to pick up 3 strangers on a €10-a-day budget challenge and take them to Vera?

Was he offloading or picking up drugs at the same time?

Where did he go after he dropped them off?

The pal could have been an accomplice latching on to a good cover story.  Or the pal could be yet another acquaintance who only knew Brueckner's public persona of the happy go lucky 'hippie' type happy to do a good turn for anyone.  Although was this at a time when he was doing odd jobs for survival? ~ which could have made his petrol costs for such a trip a bit of a consideration.

[Icanhandlethetruth]

But,but, but….. it has been repeated many times on these esteemed pages that dog alerts are NOT evidence. In fact on the very thread concerning this issue on this forum one poster postulated that the only reason previous dog alert evidence had been heard in court before was because the judges had erred in allowing them. Wait until the press get hold of this, another judge so untrained in the matters of law that he allows cadaver dog evidence to be heard in court. Surely there will be a mistrial.

(With thanks to Barrier for posting the original story)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-56930820

[G-Unit]

Interesting how dog handlers use the same words;

PC Gunderson said to him it was "clear" Max was giving "an indication".

Mr Kearney went on to ask: "Do you have any doubt of it being a positive indication from your dog in what he is trained to find?"

PC Gunderson: "I have no doubt whatsoever."
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/emma-faulds-murder-trial-hears-24045807

Then there's Grime in the parent's bedroom in 5A;

 I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Mr Gray]

But,but, but….. it has been repeated many times on these esteemed pages that dog alerts are NOT evidence. In fact on the very thread concerning this issue on this forum one poster postulated that the only reason previous dog alert evidence had been heard in court before was because the judges had erred in allowing them. Wait until the press get hold of this, another judge so untrained in the matters of law that he allows cadaver dog evidence to be heard in court. Surely there will be a mistrial.

(With thanks to Barrier for posting the original story)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-56930820

Ask the SCRCC committee... It seems they said although the dog alert should not have, been admitted the rest of the evidence was, enough to convict

[Icanhandlethetruth]

Ask the SCRCC committee... It seems they said although the dog alert should not have, been admitted the rest of the evidence was, enough to convict

I see you are still sticking with the SCRCC thing. Thats OK, I know there is no way that I could make you believe that dogs alerts are used as evidence in a court of law, even if such a trial was actually taking place at this very moment.

[Brietta]

Interesting how dog handlers use the same words;

PC Gunderson said to him it was "clear" Max was giving "an indication".

Mr Kearney went on to ask: "Do you have any doubt of it being a positive indication from your dog in what he is trained to find?"

PC Gunderson: "I have no doubt whatsoever."
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/emma-faulds-murder-trial-hears-24045807

Then there's Grime in the parent's bedroom in 5A;

 I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Sigh.

It must be horrible for you to be stuck in the time warp of 2007.  So intellectually unstimulating 🙄

[Eleanor]

Sigh.

It must be horrible for you to be stuck in the time warp of 2007.  So intellectually unstimulating 🙄

I think I'm going for a lie down.  I could be gone for some time.

[G-Unit]

Sigh.

It must be horrible for you to be stuck in the time warp of 2007.  So intellectually unstimulating 🙄

No need to sympathise, thanks. The past shaped the present and that's why it's relevant. Martin Grime is one of those who shaped the language used by dog handlers in the present.

[Brietta]

No need to sympathise, thanks. The past shaped the present and that's why it's relevant. Martin Grime is one of those who shaped the language used by dog handlers in the present.

If it comforts you to think so ... be my guest 🙂

[G-Unit]

If it comforts you to think so ... be my guest 🙂

It seems as if you would prefer the past to be forgotten, but it isn't going to happen.

[Vertigo Swirl]

It seems as if you would prefer the past to be forgotten, but it isn't going to happen.

The dog alerts in this case were consigned to the dustbin of history by those currently investigating Madeleine's abduction so it would seem you are wrong in this instance.