White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 2

[Holly Goodhead]

There is no such thing as reasonable doubt in the Bamber case, the evidence simply rules out Sheila and implicates Jeremy.  No IMO needed or offered.

2 jurors found 'not guilty'.

[barrier]

I don't think it was made for the likes of us John, it's more for people who don't know anything (or very little) about it.

I'm one of those,do you think its trying to form a picture to one side of the argument,from the little I know its leaning me toward Jeremy,can't see for the life of me that its possible for Sheila to have done it,the silencer I know has not been brought into it yet,but many moons ago for my sins I used to shoot,can't recall a .22 being that loud to warrant a silencer.Twelve bore now that is a different beast altogether.

[barrier]

2 jurors found 'not guilty'.

It'll be a sad world when we all become automatons to follow a line.Its why we're all different,put 12 people in a room whats there to say they all must be convinced beyond reasonable doubt.Was it all the evidence against JB that they found to be of doubt or just one part that they couldn't agree with to return the guilty verdict,did they both disagree on the same points? so many variables just to say with conviction oh! but two found JB not guilty.

[Holly Goodhead]

Can't see it myself. The only evidence remaining is the location of the casings and the odd blood stain.  There is no trajectory evidence per sé. The accumulated evidence points directly at Jeremy Bamber and that is unchallengeable imo.

The evidence at soc by way of blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks show exactly what happened: perp was upstairs and NB was first shot twice in the face whilst he was on the landing facing into the bedroom with perp stood inside main bedroom firing at NB on the landing.

In the case of MM forensic scientist talked about a case where the police bought a house to preserve blood stains which in the end caused the case to take a completely different direction.  In this case blood stain analysis was in its infancy and wasn't used at trial in the way it would be today.  I believe there is still some potential for this aspect to be reevaluated based on soc images.

[Holly Goodhead]

To me the and how Sheila has been described she wouldn't have the wherewithal to use a silencer,a well thought out and planned executioner would do that imo.

There's no direct evidence a silencer was used.

[barrier]

The evidence at soc by way of blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks show exactly what happened: perp was upstairs and NB was first shot twice in the face whilst he was on the landing facing into the bedroom with perp stood inside main bedroom firing at NB on the landing.

In the case of MM forensic scientist talked about a case where the police bought a house to preserve blood stains which in the end caused the case to take a completely different direction.  In this case blood stain analysis was in its infancy and wasn't used at trial in the way it would be today.  I believe there is still some potential for this aspect to be reevaluated based on soc images.

Then he went down stairs and suffered a severe beating? two shots and were supposed to believe only two done for Sheila of her own hand? did the post mortems decalre which shot would have killed the others?

[Myster]

There's no direct evidence a silencer was used.

Other than the fact that there was blood of the same type as Sheila's found on the inside baffles, and paint embedded in the knurled end, matching the same colours and layers of that on the AGA mantelshelf.

[Holly Goodhead]

Spot on barrier. Any novice would have fired off shots all over the place too but these were carefully placed shots intended to execute. It takes a particularly depraved cold-blooded psychopath to execute two small children as they slept.

The shots were all over the place.  JB was a marksman.  SC had little knowledge/experience. 25/26 shots fired. JB would have been able to kill each victim with 1 shot aimed at the head.  In the case of David Bain 5 family members died from gunshot wounds.  The firearm used had the same velocity as the one used in this case.  The perp was experienced with the firearm and used a total of 8 cartridges to kill 5 adults.  That's 2/3rd's less than the 25/26 cartridges used in this case.

[Myster]

The evidence at soc by way of blood stains, casings, distance of shots, trajectories and wound tracks show exactly what happened: perp was upstairs and NB was first shot twice in the face whilst he was on the landing facing into the bedroom with perp stood inside main bedroom firing at NB on the landing.

In the case of MM forensic scientist talked about a case where the police bought a house to preserve blood stains which in the end caused the case to take a completely different direction.  In this case blood stain analysis was in its infancy and wasn't used at trial in the way it would be today.  I believe there is still some potential for this aspect to be reevaluated based on soc images.

No it does not!!!  Nevill was nowhere near the landing when shot.  The number and positions of the spent cartridges on the bedroom floor show that Nevill was shot first as he was getting out of bed having been disturbed by noises made by an intruder, i.e. Jeremy Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

Other than the fact that there was blood of the same type as Sheila's found on the inside baffles, and paint embedded in the knurled end, matching the same colours and layers of that on the AGA mantelshelf.

Yes but there's no direct evidence a silencer was used eg markings on bullets.  The blood and paint is at the heart of the case and highly contentious given the way in which it was found and the chain of custody thereafter.

[Myster]

The shots were all over the place.  JB was a marksman.  SC had little knowledge/experience. 25/26 shots fired. JB would have been able to kill each victim with 1 shot aimed at the head.  In the case of David Bain 5 family members died from gunshot wounds.  The firearm used had the same velocity as the one used in this case.  The perp was experienced with the firearm and used a total of 8 cartridges to kill 5 adults.  That's 2/3rd's less than the 25/26 cartridges used in this case.

Nevill and June were awake and became moving targets for Bamber, which is why the shots were "all over the place".  His original intention was to sneak into each bedroom whilst everyone was asleep and kill them all with shots to the head (as one would with usual prey, such as rabbits, foxes, and pigeons).  With the twins he succeeded, but failed with the rest of the family.

[Holly Goodhead]

Maybe the producers refrained from showing the actual shooting for Colin Caffell's and the relatives' sake, so had to make it more aggressive and gripping in other ways.

Their budget might not have stretched to giving freebie holidays in Oz for Freddie Fox and Alfie Allen.

And who should the producers show as perp?

I think if the producers were bothered about living relatives and the deceased victims they would not have made such a drama; drama being the operative word.

And I wonder how Mrs Taff Jones and her 3 children feel about the late Taff Jones portrayed in such a light.

And why is CC getting involved in all of this if not to make money?

[Holly Goodhead]

Nevill and June were awake and became moving targets for Bamber, which is why the shots were "all over the place".  His original intention was to sneak into each bedroom whilst everyone was asleep and kill them all with shots to the head (as one would with usual prey, such as rabbits, foxes, and pigeons).  With the twins he succeeded, but failed with the rest of the family.

The shots were all close range. 

[Myster]

The shots were all close range.

So?!

[Holly Goodhead]

Then he went down stairs and suffered a severe beating? two shots and were supposed to believe only two done for Sheila of her own hand? did the post mortems decalre which shot would have killed the others?

NB sustained 4 gsw's upstairs: 2 to face which pathologist said would have killed him if other shots hadn't supervened. A shot to his arm which caused complete loss of use.  The other shot was a graze only wound.  The pathologist said the facial shots caused significant loss of blood internally and externally and pain.  So by the time NB got to the kitchen he was severely incapacitated.