White House Farm - ITV Drama Series - Part 4

[steve_trousers]

I think one would be waiting a very long time if one were waiting on Julie to retract her evidence. IMO she had to tell the truth otherwise she too was headed for jail. I'll never understand though why Bamber did what he did to her and effectively turned her against him?  He effectively signed his own arrest warrant by treating Julie the way he did.

I believe Julie Mugford is a thoroughly brave, decent and conscionable woman. I was just looking at it from Holly's perspective, what would I do if I thought this monster was innocent. It would follow on that JM must have told a pack of lies.

Yes John, what a spectacular own goal to treat her like that, to think he could manipulate her indefinitely for the rest of her life. But then Jeremy is one of those gobshite people who needs someone to know how clever and praiseworthy he is, "I should have been an actor"
For the same reasons, I always wondered if his mate from New Zealand must have had a fair idea what was going on, discussed it, perhaps made a few suggestions. I know he was alibi for the murders so didn't come into the investigation. But they were undoubtedly close. 

[APRIL]

I believe Julie Mugford is a thoroughly brave, decent and conscionable woman. I was just looking at it from Holly's perspective, what would I do if I thought this monster was innocent. It would follow on that JM must have told a pack of lies.

Yes John, what a spectacular own goal to treat her like that, to think he could manipulate her indefinitely for the rest of her life. But then Jeremy is one of those gobshite people who needs someone to know how clever and praiseworthy he is, "I should have been an actor"
For the same reasons, I always wondered if his mate from New Zealand must have had a fair idea what was going on, discussed it, perhaps made a few suggestions. I know he was alibi for the murders so didn't come into the investigation. But they were undoubtedly close.

I'm buying into how Julie is being played. It makes perfect sense to me. I've often wondered about her personality but I'd never seen her as a mouse, although it rather fits with the little I've been told about her background. 'Her' character, despite that it's been said otherwise, is entirely the sort, so desperate for her glamorous boyfriend's approval -and affection- that she'd have done anything to make him notice her. Hence the cheque fraud. When such a character eventually turns, best beware

[steve_trousers]

I'm buying into how Julie is being played. It makes perfect sense to me. I've often wondered about her personality but I'd never seen her as a mouse, although it rather fits with the little I've been told about her background. 'Her' character, despite that it's been said otherwise, is entirely the sort, so desperate for her glamorous boyfriend's approval -and affection- that she'd have done anything to make him notice her. Hence the cheque fraud. When such a character eventually turns, best beware

Her trip to the morgue to ID the twins would be enough to unravel most peoples conscience, if they have one. To stand there and see what the person sharing your bed is capable of.

[John]

I believe Julie Mugford is a thoroughly brave, decent and conscionable woman. I was just looking at it from Holly's perspective, what would I do if I thought this monster was innocent. It would follow on that JM must have told a pack of lies.

Yes John, what a spectacular own goal to treat her like that, to think he could manipulate her indefinitely for the rest of her life. But then Jeremy is one of those gobshite people who needs someone to know how clever and praiseworthy he is, "I should have been an actor"
For the same reasons, I always wondered if his mate from New Zealand must have had a fair idea what was going on, discussed it, perhaps made a few suggestions. I know he was alibi for the murders so didn't come into the investigation. But they were undoubtedly close.

I have previously tried to put some meat on the bones of this particular story but much appears to be a closely guarded secret. That iron clad alibi certainly was useful though.

[John]

I'm buying into how Julie is being played. It makes perfect sense to me. I've often wondered about her personality but I'd never seen her as a mouse, although it rather fits with the little I've been told about her background. 'Her' character, despite that it's been said otherwise, is entirely the sort, so desperate for her glamorous boyfriend's approval -and affection- that she'd have done anything to make him notice her. Hence the cheque fraud. When such a character eventually turns, best beware

I believe Julie was besotted with him but once she came to realise the monster she was protecting then the rest is history. I think her girlfriend (name escapes me) had a lot to do with her coming to her senses before it was too late and she ended up as an accessory after the fact.

[steve_trousers]

I have previously tried to put some meat on the bones of this particular story but much appears to be a closely guarded secret. That iron clad alibi certainly was useful though.

Out of the country, wasn't he. To my knowledge he's never tried to sell out/cash in on Bamber, small time crook like Brett Collins.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I believe Julie was besotted with him but once she came to realise the monster she was protecting then the rest is history. I think her girlfriend (name escapes me) had a lot to do with her coming to her senses before it was too late and she ended up as an accessory after the fact.

I am new to this thread having been watching the TV series. I am well aware of the opening credits warning of 'based on truth' and not a verbatim account of what happened. So forgive me if I fall into that trap of saying something that is for the TV entertainment value.

 I also wonder about the portrayal of Taff the guv. It would be good to know if he really did come round after JM's statement.

Re: JM. I tried very hard to get into her thinking (Brilliant acting) knowing what she knew, his treatment of her, still kissing him and seeking his 'affection' is way beyond my thought process.

I agree her friend did perhaps save her from herself and assisted her in some way to go forward. Her conscience must have been killing her surely.
However, I do believe her, but wonder did she come forward as a revenge from jealousy or conscience.

Can someone  clarify for me.
1. why was the bodies of the children allowed to be cremated so soon, on adopted son's say so- He was NOT the next of Kin for Sheila's children. was he even hers? did Colin have no say at all?
I find this very strange.

[steve_trousers]

Hi, Colin Caffell was the next of kin and it was his decision

[Miss Taken Identity]

Hi, Colin Caffell was the next of kin and it was his decision

Thank you for clearing that up for me- it did bother me some.

 The series does show him up as being pathetic somewhat in regards to JB Making all the decisions- he just goes along without question. I suppose that is the annoyance of it being a TV series.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I believe Julie Mugford is a thoroughly brave, decent and conscionable woman. I was just looking at it from Holly's perspective, what would I do if I thought this monster was innocent. It would follow on that JM must have told a pack of lies.

Yes John, what a spectacular own goal to treat her like that, to think he could manipulate her indefinitely for the rest of her life. But then Jeremy is one of those gobshite people who needs someone to know how clever and praiseworthy he is, "I should have been an actor"
For the same reasons, I always wondered if his mate from New Zealand must have had a fair idea what was going on, discussed it, perhaps made a few suggestions. I know he was alibi for the murders so didn't come into the investigation. But they were undoubtedly close.

It is insinuated in this episode that he had an intimate relationship with him?and JM was aware and got jealous. I thought he was Australian...

[steve_trousers]

It is insinuated in this episode that he had an intimate relationship with him?and JM was aware and got jealous. I thought he was Australian...

The rumours of an intimate relationship stem from a time they made sex noises from the same room to fool the person in the next room (a detective I think) into thinking there was something going on when there wasn't.

Julie had plenty of love rivals to worry about but as far has been actually verified they were all females.

As for Brett Collins, i'm not sure where he's from one of those 2 countries. Bamber met him on his tour down under, the one where his mother who he would shortly murder bailed him out financially so he could get home.

[barrier]

THE WHITE HOUSE FARM MURDERS – BAMBER or CAFFELL courtesy of Gunfire Graffiti (Updated 30th Jan 2020)

Excerpts;
‘This blog is covering what is at present a very topical subject. My comments are based on real experience. The central feature is the murder weapon, how it was prepared and how it was used. That cannot be avoided or skirted. I respect opinion supported by knowledge, but opinions based on thoughts and ignoring plain facts are time wasting, boring and tiresome.

The White House Farm murders have attracted a great deal of attention since they were perpetrated in August 1985. Continued interest in these brutal killings that took place in the peaceful surroundings of rural Essex has been ironically kept in the forefront by Jeremy Bamber who was convicted for the offences in October 1986. He has always maintained he is innocent. With the aid of a campaign team he diligently pursues and overlays supposedly undisclosed evidence. He and they insist that his sister Sheila Caffell committed the murders.

His support team consists of some very well respected, intelligent and articulate individuals who are working hard to secure further appeals that will, they hope, ultimately bring about his release.

This includes a new Patron, Michelle Diskin Bates, the sister of Barry George. It was George who was initially found guilty but later acquitted for the murder of Jill Dando in 1999.

This team consider Bamber’s incarceration to be major miscarriage of justice. They are impressed by his continued insistence that he is innocent even after 33 years in prison. His stance and dogged determination convinces them that he is a unique, innocent and wrongly imprisoned victim.

To get a broad view I would recommend that you look at the Jeremy Bamber campaign website and read the narratives that his supporters have posted. One particular post by Robin Cox, gives an interesting “opinion” based account of the murder weapon and how it was utilised. It is a fascinating insight into his supporters and the lengths they are prepared to go to support him. My initial contact with them was positive but once they realised the direction of my investigation and my conclusions it was no surprise that contact ceased. Michelle Diskin Bates has never replied to my letter to her. (http://gunfire-graffiti.co.uk/who-didnt-kill-jill-dando/)

http://gunfire-graffiti.co.uk/the-white-house-farm-murders-caffel-or-bamber/

Very interesting reads,thankyou.

[Myster]

The rumours of an intimate relationship stem from a time they made sex noises from the same room to fool the person in the next room (a detective I think) into thinking there was something going on when there wasn't.

Julie had plenty of love rivals to worry about but as far has been actually verified they were all females.

As for Brett Collins, i'm not sure where he's from one of those 2 countries. Bamber met him on his tour down under, the one where his mother who he would shortly murder bailed him out financially so he could get home.

Here... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7210.0

and here... https://www.lawsociety.org.nz/news-and-communications/latest-news/news/banned-motor-vehicle-trader-receives-maximum-fine

[Myster]

In part 4, I noticed that JB and JM met Brett Collins at Witham Station (which was actually filmed at North Weald Station, west Essex, with the sign changed to Witham).  In fact, they met Brett Collins in London and spent the evening in Stringfellows.




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[barrier]

In part 4, I noticed that JB and JM met Brett Collins at Witham Station (which was actually filmed at North Weald Station, west Essex, with the sign changed to Witham).  In fact, they met Brett Collins in London and spent the evening in Stringfellows.

I wonder how much JB ignored JM that night?