Tannerman & the blanket

[Mr Gray]

Could I offer my tuppence worth here.  Sworn statements can include opinion, lies, truths, observations and many other things.  People should never assume that anyone making a sworn statement or any other form of statement are in fact being truthful.

Absolutely ...we only have to look at Amaral in his perjury case. Having said that the police have to decide who they believe is telling the truth and as far as i can see both SY and the PJ beleive the McCanns

[Lace]

Not the same at all - two men talking neither saw JT.

Wouldnt you think really though if JT saw two men outside the apartment in a narrow street

gmcn would have at least been disturbed if it wasnt him - who was it especially when abductors are roaming about.

Taken from Jane Tanner's statement -  She doesn't recall the position/orientation of either Jez or GM while they spoke to each other on the street, only having the perception that one was on the pavement and the other was in the road next to the other. Jez had a baby carriage, the deponent knowing that he had a small child.

So one was on the edge of the pavement and the other on the road,  standing side by side.   Now if they were chatting and looking at each other,  there is every possibility that they wouldn't see Jane passing them.

[kizzy]

Taken from Jane Tanner's statement -  She doesn't recall the position/orientation of either Jez or GM while they spoke to each other on the street, only having the perception that one was on the pavement and the other was in the road next to the other. Jez had a baby carriage, the deponent knowing that he had a small child.

So one was on the edge of the pavement and the other on the road,  standing side by side.   Now if they were chatting and looking at each other,  there is every possibility that they wouldn't see Jane passing them.

Well if she knew who they were - how come she didn't speak to them virtually passing by them

[Lace]

Well if she knew who they were - how come she didn't speak to them virtually passing by them

Probably because they didn't look at her they were having a conversation.

[Brietta]

Well if she knew who they were - how come she didn't speak to them virtually passing by them

Snip
But I thought they were closer by, because as I walked by, I almost did go to sort of acknowledge them and I thought at that point ‘Oh they were cha cha cha’ and I did think, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t know whether they’d seen me or not, but I did actually go to acknowledge them and I think if they’d have been that far away I don’t know whether I would have sort of almost gone to say hello, but.  But they were talking quite (inaudible), so I just carried on, you know, up, up the road.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm


I don't think Jane knew Gerry particularly well and she didn't know Jes at all ... in my opinion there is absolutely nothing extraordinary in her not barging into a conversation with two people who were obviously oblivious to her presence.

[pathfinder73]

Snip
But I thought they were closer by, because as I walked by, I almost did go to sort of acknowledge them and I thought at that point ‘Oh they were cha cha cha’ and I did think, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t know whether they’d seen me or not, but I did actually go to acknowledge them and I think if they’d have been that far away I don’t know whether I would have sort of almost gone to say hello, but.  But they were talking quite (inaudible), so I just carried on, you know, up, up the road.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm


I don't think Jane knew Gerry particularly well and she didn't know Jes at all ... in my opinion there is absolutely nothing extraordinary in her not barging into a conversation with two people who were obviously oblivious to her presence.

She (Kate) was due around the same time as me err so yeah we sort of we got together around that time, so it’ll be two thousand and three.”

4078    “And how often would the group of you get together roughly?”

Reply    “Err, well as I say with Kate and Gerry we probably saw them two or three times a year.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

[G-Unit]

https://youtu.be/M3bfO1rE7Yg

Check it out and note at least three points of view for exactly the same incident.

Jane Tanner changed her testimony from the two men speaking just north of the gate to 5A to them speaking at the entrance to the alleyway.

[Mr Gray]

Jane Tanner changed her testimony from the two men speaking just north of the gate to 5A to them speaking at the entrance to the alleyway.

Cite

[Brietta]

She (Kate) was due around the same time as me err so yeah we sort of we got together around that time, so it’ll be two thousand and three.”

4078    “And how often would the group of you get together roughly?”

Reply    “Err, well as I say with Kate and Gerry we probably saw them two or three times a year.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

I am afraid you have chosen part of a very long statement to distort the truth.

Disingenuous at the least, I think and perpetuating an inaccuracy which is unacceptable. 
Allow me to substantiate what I said in my post "I don't think Jane knew Gerry particularly well and she didn't know Jes at all." with reference to the truthful information given by Jane from the cite you provided but which you have ignored and omitted to post.


Snip
“Yeah err well we’re very good friends with David and Fiona, and Matt and Rachael, err and it was really down to Fiona that decided that, first of all decided to go on holiday. We’d been on holiday with those two couples before and we’d just moved down to Exeter so we foresaw it as a good chance to keep in touch with friends, friends in Leicester really. Err so David and Fiona came up with the idea of going to Portugal on a Mark Warner holiday

……………………………………………………………….
Reply    “Err but they’d been on holiday with David and Fiona before and so, and they’ve got children the same age as well, you know obviously Madeleine’s the same age as Ella, so a bit of a nice group.”
4078    “So you knew them all but you hadn’t all been on holiday as a group before?”
Reply    “No, we’ve been with Matt and Rachael and David and Fiona. And David and Fiona had been with Kate and Gerry but we hadn’t been, not the eight, or the nine of us including Fi’s mum, we hadn’t been on holiday before.”

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “How well, I know you say you’ve been away with them all before and it was the first time you’ve been away with Kate and Gerry, how well did the group of you know each other would you say? And were you very comfortable with each other?”
Reply    “Yeah very, very comfortable. I say Russell err had lived, well he was a student with both Matt and Dave and err and then with Dave and Fiona when they were living together, so, and I mean I’ve known Russell for twelve, I think it’s twelve years now so you know sort of when Russell was living with David and Fiona I was obviously there a lot as well so yes we know those, we’ve known them very well. Obviously we know Rachael as well, Matt’s partner, but again, as I say we’ve been on holiday, we socialise a lot so yeah we’re very good friends. Kate and Gerry again we’d socialise with them, I didn’t know them as well as the others but I mean it was a very comfortable group, so.”

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “Okay so how long have you known the MCCANN family?”
Reply    “I think, I’ve been trying to work out the first time I actually did first meet them but it was around about the time that Ella and Madeleine were born because Russell was working with Gerry at the Royal and I can remember, I honestly can’t remember the first time I actually met them exactly but it was around that time and we met them, I think it was at Dave and Fi’s house, because Fi knew Kate well at that point …

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “And how often would the group of you get together roughly?”
Reply    “Err, well as I say with Kate and Gerry we probably saw them two or three times a year but Dave and Fi we probably saw every week, if not more often because we just lived down the road, and Matt and Rachael they moved away, they were in London. Well they were in Leicester for a while and then they moved to London so again, less, less often.”

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “Okay. Right, do you feel there’s anything more to ask about the relationship between the group that we haven’t already covered?”
Reply    “Err, no I think just the thing I’d like is the fact I think for something to come on to later, is probably with Kate and Gerry I didn’t know them as well as I knew the rest of the group and I just would like yeah, the rest I’d see a lot whereas Kate and Gerry were more, we’d see them every now and again.”
4078    “Yeah.”
Reply    “So, but I would like to stress that because I think that’s very relevant when it comes to things later on really.”
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

[kizzy]

Probably because they didn't look at her they were having a conversation.

An probably not as well - you don't know probably L

[pathfinder73]

I am afraid you have chosen part of a very long statement to distort the truth.

Disingenuous at the least, I think and perpetuating an inaccuracy which is unacceptable. 
Allow me to substantiate what I said in my post "I don't think Jane knew Gerry particularly well and she didn't know Jes at all." with reference to the truthful information given by Jane from the cite you provided but which you have ignored and omitted to post.


Snip
“Yeah err well we’re very good friends with David and Fiona, and Matt and Rachael, err and it was really down to Fiona that decided that, first of all decided to go on holiday. We’d been on holiday with those two couples before and we’d just moved down to Exeter so we foresaw it as a good chance to keep in touch with friends, friends in Leicester really. Err so David and Fiona came up with the idea of going to Portugal on a Mark Warner holiday

……………………………………………………………….
Reply    “Err but they’d been on holiday with David and Fiona before and so, and they’ve got children the same age as well, you know obviously Madeleine’s the same age as Ella, so a bit of a nice group.”
4078    “So you knew them all but you hadn’t all been on holiday as a group before?”
Reply    “No, we’ve been with Matt and Rachael and David and Fiona. And David and Fiona had been with Kate and Gerry but we hadn’t been, not the eight, or the nine of us including Fi’s mum, we hadn’t been on holiday before.”

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “How well, I know you say you’ve been away with them all before and it was the first time you’ve been away with Kate and Gerry, how well did the group of you know each other would you say? And were you very comfortable with each other?”
Reply    “Yeah very, very comfortable. I say Russell err had lived, well he was a student with both Matt and Dave and err and then with Dave and Fiona when they were living together, so, and I mean I’ve known Russell for twelve, I think it’s twelve years now so you know sort of when Russell was living with David and Fiona I was obviously there a lot as well so yes we know those, we’ve known them very well. Obviously we know Rachael as well, Matt’s partner, but again, as I say we’ve been on holiday, we socialise a lot so yeah we’re very good friends. Kate and Gerry again we’d socialise with them, I didn’t know them as well as the others but I mean it was a very comfortable group, so.”

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “Okay so how long have you known the MCCANN family?”
Reply    “I think, I’ve been trying to work out the first time I actually did first meet them but it was around about the time that Ella and Madeleine were born because Russell was working with Gerry at the Royal and I can remember, I honestly can’t remember the first time I actually met them exactly but it was around that time and we met them, I think it was at Dave and Fi’s house, because Fi knew Kate well at that point …

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “And how often would the group of you get together roughly?”
Reply    “Err, well as I say with Kate and Gerry we probably saw them two or three times a year but Dave and Fi we probably saw every week, if not more often because we just lived down the road, and Matt and Rachael they moved away, they were in London. Well they were in Leicester for a while and then they moved to London so again, less, less often.”

……………………………………………………………….
4078    “Okay. Right, do you feel there’s anything more to ask about the relationship between the group that we haven’t already covered?”
Reply    “Err, no I think just the thing I’d like is the fact I think for something to come on to later, is probably with Kate and Gerry I didn’t know them as well as I knew the rest of the group and I just would like yeah, the rest I’d see a lot whereas Kate and Gerry were more, we’d see them every now and again.”
4078    “Yeah.”
Reply    “So, but I would like to stress that because I think that’s very relevant when it comes to things later on really.”
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

Jane didn't know them as well as the others in the group. So what? She definitely knew the McCanns well.  They had dined out every night together on the holiday sitting at the same table so why would she ignore Gerry? Your argument is nonsense!

[Brietta]

Jane didn't know them as well as the others in the group. So what? She definitely knew the McCanns well.  They had dined out every night together on the holiday sitting at the same table so why would she ignore Gerry? Your argument is nonsense!

Jane did not know Kate and Gerry very well and says so in her statement.  Not that it matters in the slightest when one bears in mind that after years of campaigning for action in Madeleine's case her parents got an investigation going by Scotland Yard and the Judicial Police ~ it speaks volumes is that your main concern still seems to be keeping the propaganda war unleashed against Jane Tanner going after all these years.

What is her offence?
She saw a man carrying a child away from the immediate location from which she later discovered a child had gone missing and reported that fact to the police as soon as they arrived at the scene.

[pathfinder73]

I believe she saw Totman and I believe she used the lane route and never passed Gerry and Jez. Nobody would believe she passed them on the same pavement without either noticing. This was a quiet deserted road not busy with other distractions.

[Brietta]

I believe she saw Totman and I believe she used the lane route and never passed Gerry and Jez. Nobody would believe she passed them on the same pavement without either noticing. This was a quiet deserted road not busy with other distractions.

You can believe whatever you choose that is entirely your prerogative.  However Jane explains in words of one syllable the exact route she took to and from her check and exactly where she had seen the man carrying the little girl and his direction of travel down to the fact she had looked after him and saw him progressing in the direction of the main route out of the village.

There is no mystery as to the route Jane took and it was not via the back lane.  The patio doors could not be unlocked from the outside ~ they secured them from the inside and unlocked the front door to gain access after crossing the car park as Jane describes.

Snip
4078    “So the man and the child have moved off down the road towards, do you know where that goes towards?”

Reply    “Erm, well it’s just this road, I think it’s, erm, I’d be here, so they’re walking up here.  Say that’s the top of the road there, so they’re walking along here”.

 4078    “And what is that in the direction of, do you know, where does that ultimately go to?”

Reply    “That sort of goes, that goes up to the road, that’s the main road out, well to get out of the town or so to speak.  You sort of go up here and then back and that will take you to, to the crèche”.

4078    “Okay”.

Reply    “And the sort of car park is here.  These bits here are sort of the car parky bit”.

 4078    “And when you say you saw them walk down and you might have turned back as well, whereabouts were they at the point where you turned back?”

Reply    “Erm, I’d say probably about there.  They were, well round this bit, they weren’t as far as the car parky bit.  I’m trying to picture that area there.  But they weren’t, they were probably, by that stage, probably about three times that distance or”.

 4078    “Yeah”.

Reply    “You know, sort of a bit more than, than that distance away”.

 4078    “On the same side of the road?”

Reply    “The same side of the road as, yeah”.

 4078    “And was there anything about the way he walked or the speed that he was walking that made you think he was about to change direction?”

Reply    “No, no, no, he was just sort of, just walking”.

 4078    “So you are unable to say where he stopped or?”

Reply    “No, he was just walking on that way as I looked and then I’d, I’d sort of went the opposite way, went the opposite way to carry on the check”.

 4078    “So thinking then about the last glimpse you had of him, when you turned back and you saw him and you say he was not yet at the car park, he was on the same side of the road.  Are you happy with the way you have described the lighting that there was a kind of an orangy tint?”

Reply    “Yeah, as much as I can remember.  I mean, I don’t, it was, I’m sure it was, it was, it was dark, it was getting, it was fairly, I’m sure it was fairly, phew.  I’m trying to think.  Yeah, I’m sure it was fairly dark by that, it was, the street lights were definitely, I’m sure the street lights were definitely.  I can’t say, but I think it was, I think it was getting fairly dark”.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm

[sadie]

Yet for years Tannerman was a focus despite some obvious poor lighting which couldn't enable Tanner to properly see the man,Redwood saw the light though.

Cutting Edge Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkc3C6csaHI 

View @ approx

11.00 ...... 

11.34 ......

11.57 - 12.02 ....

12.16 - 12.24 ....



See how the illumination dramatically increases as Tannerman gets close to and passes the street lamp. Jane was about 9 metres away from him as he passed the street lamp, but more importantly he was close, only about a metre, to the lamp and well illuminated.  She could see him quite well at that stage, but not so well at the start of his watched walk.


In contrast, when Jane passed Gerry and Jez chatting, she was about 13 metres away from the nearest streetlamp, so how much illumination do you think there was there, barrier ?   Not a lot and with Gerrys hulk in the way .......