Author Topic: The phone call  (Read 126576 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Total likes: 802
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: The phone call
« Reply #420 on: February 26, 2020, 09:45:31 PM »
Well for a start you blame the crimes on one of of the murder victims.  For another you have suggested that the Bambers were controlling and “economically abusive” and that this had a bearing on their outcome.  Thirdly you have suggested that June’s state of mind negatively affected her adopted children causing one of them to go berserk and kill everyone in the house.  Have I misunderstood?


So, are you saying that because someone was a victim, they have to have been whiter than white, and nothing should ever be said against them?

It does occur to me that perhaps some people (not just on this forum) might think Jeremy is guilty because they do not want to have to blame Sheila.

Offline Caroline

Re: The phone call
« Reply #421 on: February 26, 2020, 10:04:01 PM »

So, are you saying that because someone was a victim, they have to have been whiter than white, and nothing should ever be said against them?

It does occur to me that perhaps some people (not just on this forum) might think Jeremy is guilty because they do not want to have to blame Sheila.

Well you can count me out of that and I doubt anyone who thinks Bamber is guilty, does so on that basis.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #422 on: February 26, 2020, 10:05:05 PM »

So, are you saying that because someone was a victim, they have to have been whiter than white, and nothing should ever be said against them?

It does occur to me that perhaps some people (not just on this forum) might think Jeremy is guilty because they do not want to have to blame Sheila.
Jeremy IS guilty and therefore blaming his victims (whether whiter than white or fallible human beings)  is an extremely unpleasant (some might say despicable) pastime for busybodies to indulge in on the internet.  IMO.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: The phone call
« Reply #423 on: February 26, 2020, 10:37:33 PM »
Jeremy IS guilty and therefore blaming his victims (whether whiter than white or fallible human beings)  is an extremely unpleasant (some might say despicable) pastime for busybodies to indulge in on the internet.  IMO.

A jury found Jeremy Bamber guilty, but does that mean he IS guilty? Which bit of the evidence convinced you that was true?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #424 on: February 26, 2020, 10:57:01 PM »
A jury found Jeremy Bamber guilty, but does that mean he IS guilty? Which bit of the evidence convinced you that was true?

This bit
151. The prosecution relied upon the following areas of evidence:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline mrswah

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Total likes: 802
  • Thinking outside the box, as usual-------
Re: The phone call
« Reply #425 on: February 26, 2020, 11:00:35 PM »
Well you can count me out of that and I doubt anyone who thinks Bamber is guilty, does so on that basis.

I never counted you in, Caroline!

However, I have come across several people in another discussion group (no, not the "Blue Forum") who describe themselves as being "pro Sheila" or "on Sheila's side", and therefore, by default,  have to believe Jeremy is guilty. Some of them are by no means sure.  Interesting really----------

Offline Caroline

Re: The phone call
« Reply #426 on: February 26, 2020, 11:12:17 PM »
I never counted you in, Caroline!

However, I have come across several people in another discussion group (no, not the "Blue Forum") who describe themselves as being "pro Sheila" or "on Sheila's side", and therefore, by default,  have to believe Jeremy is guilty. Some of them are by no means sure.  Interesting really----------

 8((()*/

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #427 on: February 26, 2020, 11:25:49 PM »
If you can’t see what’s reprehensible about it then there’s no point me trying to explain.

By your own admission you know very little about the case.  You haven't carried out any independent research and have simply gone along with the official line believing JB guilty as charged.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #428 on: February 26, 2020, 11:29:27 PM »
This bit
151. The prosecution relied upon the following areas of evidence:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.

But have you carried out any independent research to verify the prosecution case above?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #429 on: February 26, 2020, 11:47:11 PM »
Jeremy IS guilty and therefore blaming his victims (whether whiter than white or fallible human beings)  is an extremely unpleasant (some might say despicable) pastime for busybodies to indulge in on the internet.  IMO.

The fact someone is found guilty in a court of law doesn't make the verdict factually correct.  If it did we wouldn't have MoJ's?

In this case the defence and prosecution agreed at trial the perp was either JB or SC and no other possibility existed.  So for those of us who believe JB is the victim of a moj by definition we believe SC responsible.  A viewed shared by 2 of the 12 jurors.

I find your othet comments melo-dramatic.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline steve_trousers

Re: The phone call
« Reply #430 on: February 27, 2020, 01:19:40 AM »
By your own admission you know very little about the case.  You haven't carried out any independent research and have simply gone along with the official line believing JB guilty as charged.

Swirl answered the question and clearly understands enough of the facts, to have formed his own opinion. I don't know where Independent research would come into it. It's real blue peter badge stuff. Now Bamber's campaign team are claiming that the anschutz fired indoors sounds as faint as mere "handclap"

Her majesty versus bamber http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
It's all there and the jury got it right the first time. These are the irrefutable facts of the prosecution.
 

Offline barrier

Re: The phone call
« Reply #431 on: February 27, 2020, 06:54:28 AM »
The fact someone is found guilty in a court of law doesn't make the verdict factually correct.  If it did we wouldn't have MoJ's?

In this case the defence and prosecution agreed at trial the perp was either JB or SC and no other possibility existed.  So for those of us who believe JB is the victim of a moj by definition we believe SC responsible. A viewed shared by 2 of the 12 jurors. [b/]

I find your othet comments melo-dramatic.
Not shared by 10 of the 12 is the relevant point.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #432 on: February 27, 2020, 06:58:18 AM »
Swirl answered the question and clearly understands enough of the facts, to have formed his own opinion. I don't know where Independent research would come into it. It's real blue peter badge stuff. Now Bamber's campaign team are claiming that the anschutz fired indoors sounds as faint as mere "handclap"

Her majesty versus bamber http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html
It's all there and the jury got it right the first time. These are the irrefutable facts of the prosecution.

Copying and pasting the prosecution case does not make JB guilty.   No more than it would make JB innocent if I copied and pasted the defence case.  Many of the facts you claim are irrefutable have already been refuted.  The third appeal will be devastating for the prosecution resulting in an acquittal. 

Why speculate about the noise level from the muzzle blast with and without silencer, or attempt to use crude methods eg sound of a handclap, when it can be accurately measured by way of decibels?

And why were jurors taken to the firing range at Fingringhoe to hear the difference in sound, which would have sounded altogether different from the soc anyway, and yet not taken to WHF to see for themselves whether or not it was possible  for JB to exit the window it is claimed he left via and in doing so was able to secure it closed from outside? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline barrier

Re: The phone call
« Reply #433 on: February 27, 2020, 07:09:17 AM »
Copying and pasting the prosecution case does not make JB guilty.   No more than it would make JB innocent if I copied and pasted the defence case.  Many of the facts you claim are irrefutable have already been refuted.  The third appeal will be devastating for the prosecution resulting in an acquittal. 

Why speculate about the noise level from the muzzle blast with and without silencer, or attempt to use crude methods eg sound of a handclap, when it can be accurately measured by way of decibels?

And why were jurors taken to the firing range at Fingringhoe to hear the difference in sound, which would have sounded altogether different from the soc anyway, and yet not taken to WHF to see for themselves whether or not it was possible  for JB to exit the window it is claimed he left via and in doing so was able to secure it closed from outside?
What is the damning new piece of evidence not produced at the trial and in previous unsuccessful appeals?
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #434 on: February 27, 2020, 07:33:41 AM »
By your own admission you know very little about the case.  You haven't carried out any independent research and have simply gone along with the official line believing JB guilty as charged.
I haven’t done any “independent research” on whether man landed on the moon or whether the Jews were behind 9/11 or whether Fusilier Lee Rigby ever existed.  I have read enough about all these cases but I don’t feel the need to immerse myself in irrelevant minutiae to prove that the official versions are correct.  I find your hobby pointless and cruel tbh.  What do you hope to achieve apart from causing pain and suffering to those left behind?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".