The phone call

[Holly Goodhead]

This is such a weak argument that it just wouldn't pass muster Holly.

I disagree entirely.  At trial the prosecution relied on the following re the tel call:

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

If a shooting reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained the two facial wounds and the perp was stood inside the bedroom firing out onto the landing then this puts an entirely different complexion on what jurors were told at trial. 

At trial judge and jury were led to believe all adult victims sustained upstairs gunshot wounds in NB and June's bedroom.

http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html

[Caroline]

I think CW was just trying to illustrate approx how he thought SC shot herself.  At the end of the day he is merely a poster on an internet forum not an expert witness providing testimony at trial.  The experiments the FSS undertook using various women of different heights are no more or less scientific than CW's experiment given no measurements of SC's arm span were used and yet this played a part at trial!

Americans have a very different view of this case based on their wide ownership of firearms.

He made a big thing of his reconstruction and it was nothing more than him laying down with a rifle on his chest. We kinda knew that bit - obviously it's possible to shoot yourself laying down but his efforts proved nothing. At least the FSS used a silencer.

[Caroline]

I disagree entirely.  At trial the prosecution relied on the following re the tel call:

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

If a shooting reconstruction places NB on the landing stairs when he sustained the two facial wounds and the perp was stood inside the bedroom firing out onto the landing then this puts an entirely different complexion on what jurors were told at trial. 

At trial judge and jury were led to believe all adult victims sustained upstairs gunshot wounds in NB and June's bedroom.

http://www.homepage-link.to/JUSTICE/judgements/Bamber/index.html

The defence had the opportunity to argue that Neville made the call before being shot - they didn't bother,

[adam]

Nevill ringing Bamber at 3am, would be the strangest reaction I can think of to being shot 4 times.

But with Nevill shot 4 times, there is no doubt Sheila had a gun and was going crazy. Resulting in Nevill only saying 9 words.

Prosecution & defence agreed this is when Nevill's phone call was made. There have been no alternative suggestions from the OS since conviction. 

[ISpyWithMyEye]

Why, if he wasn't injured at that point?

So you’re saying while Sheila was going berserk With the gun,  going from room to room shooting the family dead, Nevill strolled downstairs , searched for the telephone directory (without his reading glasses); thumbed through it, squinting, then phoned the local police station 20 miles away?

And then thought “Ah, I best call Jeremy too. He’ll come and get the rifle off Sheila...now, whats his number again...?”

[ISpyWithMyEye]

There is no evidence as far as I know that the Bamber men had to look through a telephone directory to find the telephone number of the police.

Not to be sexist, but women are more likely to keep track of birthdays and ages in my experience.

Jeremy looked through his telephone directory — he said so

He said it took him 10 minutes, too...which is odd when your terrified-sounding father has called asking for help...

We know Nevill made no calls at all: one because the police didn’t receive any from him or the house, and had he called, the phone would’ve been covered in blood

However, had he too decided to call the local police rather than 999 (despite it being a dire emergency) I’d guess he didn’t know the number off by heart. I don’t know mine, and I found very few people do

[ISpyWithMyEye]

The defence had the opportunity to argue that Neville made the call before being shot - they didn't bother,

Absolutely

The defence DAREN’T have even touched on that, as it would have proved NB couldn’t have been shot upstairs otherwise the phone would’ve been covered in blood

But forensics PROVED NB was indeed shot upstairs

How can people not REALISE that?

[G-Unit]

Jeremy looked through his telephone directory — he said so

He said it took him 10 minutes, too...which is odd when your terrified-sounding father has called asking for help...

We know Nevill made no calls at all: one because the police didn’t receive any from him or the house, and had he called, the phone would’ve been covered in blood

However, had he too decided to call the local police rather than 999 (despite it being a dire emergency) I’d guess he didn’t know the number off by heart. I don’t know mine, and I found very few people do

There was no reason why the phone should be covered in blood, and Nevill may have been familiar with the local police number, him being a Magistrate.

[Caroline]

There was no reason why the phone should be covered in blood, and Nevill may have been familiar with the local police number, him being a Magistrate.

He had already called Jeremy (allegedly) because 'Sheila had gone crazy with a gun' if he had then called the police, things must have escalated (bloody predictive text!) - why would he use the local number on a dial telephone? Nevill didn't call the police, the log proves it.

[mrswah]

Absolutely

The defence DAREN’T have even touched on that, as it would have proved NB couldn’t have been shot upstairs otherwise the phone would’ve been covered in blood

But forensics PROVED NB was indeed shot upstairs

How can people not REALISE that?

Nobody is saying NB wasn't shot upstairs.

However, why couldn't Nevill have phoned Jeremy before he was shot at all, because Sheila had picked up the gun, and he was afraid she might use it?

[G-Unit]

Nobody is saying NB wasn't shot upstairs.

However, why couldn't Nevill have phoned Jeremy before he was shot at all, because Sheila had picked up the gun, and he was afraid she might use it?

The Bambers were a private family too. They didn't talk about their troubles and Jeremy said his father didn't like involving 'institutions'. If Sheila had been violent before it's quite possible that her parents kept it quiet. Her father may have thought he could quieten her down and get the gun off her, because she was closer to him than to her mother.

[mrswah]

The Bambers were a private family too. They didn't talk about their troubles and Jeremy said his father didn't like involving 'institutions'. If Sheila had been violent before it's quite possible that her parents kept it quiet. Her father may have thought he could quieten her down and get the gun off her, because she was closer to him than to her mother.

Absolutely. In addition,  Nevill might have thought that Jeremy might be able to calm Sheila down.

[Holly Goodhead]

Absolutely. In addition,  Nevill might have thought that Jeremy might be able to calm Sheila down.

Afaik SC never discussed with her psychiatrist any ill-feeling between herself and JB.  In fact Afaik she didn't mention him at all.  Her morbid thoughts were restricted to June and the twins and I think her friend Freddie too.

Others will say JB and SC didn't get on but I don't see any evidence for this.  CC invited JB to his party on the Sat before the murders and JB drove SC home afterwards.  Why would all this happen if the pair didn't get on?

As Prince Harry recently said 'as brothers you have good days and bad days'.

[Caroline]

The Bambers were a private family too. They didn't talk about their troubles and Jeremy said his father didn't like involving 'institutions'. If Sheila had been violent before it's quite possible that her parents kept it quiet. Her father may have thought he could quieten her down and get the gun off her, because she was closer to him than to her mother.

This notion just doesn't cut it. No new is suggesting they take out a full page spread in the local newspaper, calling the police when you're in trouble has nothing to do with being 'a private person'. People argue this to support a call to Jeremy and then in the same breath claim he later called the police - did he stop being a private person within 10 mins? You're right, had this situation occurred, he would have tried to get the gun, not waste time calling Jeremy, who he knew would be asleep and take time to arrive there.

[Caroline]

Absolutely. In addition,  Nevill might have thought that Jeremy might be able to calm Sheila down.

Why? If he couldn't get the gun (although there is no reason why he couldn't) then how would he expect Jeremy to when they didn't get on. The call would have wasted valuable time. It just didn't happen.

Question: How did Sheila manage to get the rifle, attach the magazine and get passed Nevill? Where was Nevill when this happened? If in bed, he must have gotten up and saw her with the rifle; are we then to stretch reality and consider that he just let her go upstairs with a fully loaded rifle while he called Jeremy? REALLY? If he was downstairs, how did she manage to attach the magazine with him in the vicinity? Did he just stand watching? The whole thing just doesn't make any sense.