Author Topic: The phone call  (Read 126629 times)

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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #435 on: February 27, 2020, 07:36:29 AM »
What is the damning new piece of evidence not produced at the trial and in previous unsuccessful appeals?
I believe it is a piece of straw, hot and clammy from being clutched so tightly.
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline G-Unit

Re: The phone call
« Reply #436 on: February 27, 2020, 09:11:08 AM »
This bit
151. The prosecution relied upon the following areas of evidence:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.

I have only looked in depth at this evidence;

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

I have seen no reason why his father couldn't have used the telephone before he had sustained any injuries. This also answers point b)

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

There is a possibility that Nevill did call the police.

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

How can anyone know what someone's reaction would be? If indeed Nevill did call the police he didn't call 999 either.
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Offline Vertigo Swirl

Re: The phone call
« Reply #437 on: February 27, 2020, 09:21:40 AM »
It appears that Bamber’s bombshell new evidence is that a rifle was seen poking out of a window when he and a whole bunch of policemen were positioned outside WHF, too afraid to enter in case the murderer was still at large.  If this is true, how does Bamber account for the fact that neither of the final two gunshots (made without a silencer) was heard by any of those in attendance?
"You can't reason with the unreasonable".

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #438 on: February 27, 2020, 10:44:24 AM »
What is the damning new piece of evidence not produced at the trial and in previous unsuccessful appeals?

Plural/pieces
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Angelo222

Re: The phone call
« Reply #439 on: February 27, 2020, 10:56:17 AM »
What is the damning new piece of evidence not produced at the trial and in previous unsuccessful appeals?

There isn't any.  The only reason Bamber keeps this going is that he is scared of being forgotten, he craves attention.  His natural family don't want anything to do with him nor do his adoptive cousins. He is a sad lonely excuse for a man.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #440 on: February 27, 2020, 10:57:35 AM »
I haven’t done any “independent research” on whether man landed on the moon or whether the Jews were behind 9/11 or whether Fusilier Lee Rigby ever existed.  I have read enough about all these cases but I don’t feel the need to immerse myself in irrelevant minutiae to prove that the official versions are correct.  I find your hobby pointless and cruel tbh.  What do you hope to achieve apart from causing pain and suffering to those left behind?

Please desist with the melo-drama.  If your sensibilities are so affected by those of us who either consider JB a moj or think he could be then please look away.

Man on moon/9/11/ Death of Lee Rugby were all witnessed by numerous others and the official version of events maintained throughout.  The murders at WHF have no surviving witnesses to them and the official version of events from day 1 was murder/suicide.  Even an independent review some 3/4 weeks later concluded murder/suicide.  The relatives, who went on to inherit the Bamber estate, were allowed to exert influence over the direction of the investigation and investigators.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Angelo222

Re: The phone call
« Reply #441 on: February 27, 2020, 10:59:56 AM »
Please desist with the melo-drama.  If your sensibilities are so affected by those of us who either consider JB a moj or think he could be then please look away.

Man on moon/9/11/ Death of Lee Rugby were all witnessed by numerous others and the official version of events maintained throughout.  The murders at WHF have no surviving witnesses to them and the official version of events from day 1 was murder/suicide.  Even an independent review some 3/4 weeks later concluded murder/suicide.  The relatives, who went on to inherit the Bamber estate, were allowed to exert influence over the direction of the investigation and investigators.

That's a pretty weak excuse if you don't mind me saying so.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #442 on: February 27, 2020, 11:00:37 AM »
There isn't any.  The only reason Bamber keeps this going is that he is scared of being forgotten, he craves attention.  His natural family don't want anything to do with him nor do his adoptive cousins. He is a sad lonely excuse for a man.

How would you know?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #443 on: February 27, 2020, 11:01:29 AM »
That's a pretty weak excuse if you don't mind me saying so.

What is?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #444 on: February 27, 2020, 11:04:32 AM »
It appears that Bamber’s bombshell new evidence is that a rifle was seen poking out of a window when he and a whole bunch of policemen were positioned outside WHF, too afraid to enter in case the murderer was still at large.  If this is true, how does Bamber account for the fact that neither of the final two gunshots (made without a silencer) was heard by any of those in attendance?

I didn't think you believed Bamber so why are you quoting him?

If anyone wants to understand the case properly I would recommend giving JB and his so-called Campaign Team a very wide berth. Try forensic text books instead.

In terms of the final two shots as they were contact the muzzle against the skin will act as a natural suppressor absorbing the muzzle blast. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 11:07:32 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #445 on: February 27, 2020, 11:11:28 AM »
I have only looked in depth at this evidence;

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

I have seen no reason why his father couldn't have used the telephone before he had sustained any injuries. This also answers point b)

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

There is a possibility that Nevill did call the police.

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

How can anyone know what someone's reaction would be? If indeed Nevill did call the police he didn't call 999 either.

Anyone wishing to understand the case properly needs to take on your tagline:

Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: The phone call
« Reply #446 on: February 27, 2020, 01:40:18 PM »
Please desist with the melo-drama.  If your sensibilities are so affected by those of us who either consider JB a moj or think he could be then please look away.

Man on moon/9/11/ Death of Lee Rugby were all witnessed by numerous others and the official version of events maintained throughout.  The murders at WHF have no surviving witnesses to them and the official version of events from day 1 was murder/suicide.  Even an independent review some 3/4 weeks later concluded murder/suicide.  The relatives, who went on to inherit the Bamber estate, were allowed to exert influence over the direction of the investigation and investigators.

That's why a reconstruction wouldn't be valid in this case. Any witness that comes forward potentially exerts influence.

Offline Caroline

Re: The phone call
« Reply #447 on: February 27, 2020, 04:06:46 PM »
I didn't think you believed Bamber so why are you quoting him?

If anyone wants to understand the case properly I would recommend giving JB and his so-called Campaign Team a very wide berth. Try forensic text books instead.

In terms of the final two shots as they were contact the muzzle against the skin will act as a natural suppressor absorbing the muzzle blast.

That's kind of like saying, if you want to understand an illness, don't bother going to the GP, get yourself a medical text book. If Bamber doesn't know about the case, then no one does. Why do you imagine that police need to speak to witnesses? From your point of view, they are a waste of time and basically, just get in the way. Reading the scene is open to interpretation - too many episodes of Silent Witness maybe?

As for the noise of the final two shots - the window was open and the officers outside were on high alert.

By the way, your faith in the notion that Sheila's head was propped upright against the cabinet is not supported by the evidence of the blood that has ran from her mouth and into her eye. Her head would have needed to be flat - so the officer was mistaken. Have to give David on the Blue forum the credit for mentioning this (although it pains).

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #448 on: February 27, 2020, 05:11:04 PM »
That's why a reconstruction wouldn't be valid in this case. Any witness that comes forward potentially exerts influence.

On the contrary, a shooting reconstruction is based on the physical evidence captured, documented and photographed at soc. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: The phone call
« Reply #449 on: February 27, 2020, 05:26:00 PM »
That's kind of like saying, if you want to understand an illness, don't bother going to the GP, get yourself a medical text book. If Bamber doesn't know about the case, then no one does. Why do you imagine that police need to speak to witnesses? From your point of view, they are a waste of time and basically, just get in the way. Reading the scene is open to interpretation - too many episodes of Silent Witness maybe?


I see it as more analogous to having two consultations with experts and making an informed choice between the two.  Eg you can take on board Malcolm Fletcher's trial testimony whereby he claims the drawback phenomenon was almost certain to occur or you can go with Dr Vincent Di Maio that in a high % of cases contact wounds do not result in blood presenting in or on the barrel.

As for the noise of the final two shots - the window was open and the officers outside were on high alert.


SC may have shot herself before the police arrived and if she didn't the officers were unlikely to hear the sound of gunshot from a. 22 with subsonic ammo and contact wounds.  Plus they were not standing directly under the 1st floor window but some distance back.

By the way, your faith in the notion that Sheila's head was propped upright against the cabinet is not supported by the evidence of the blood that has ran from her mouth and into her eye. Her head would have needed to be flat - so the officer was mistaken. Have to give David on the Blue forum the credit for mentioning this (although it pains).

Now who's deviating from expert opinion?  I'll stick with forensic scientist Dr Ismail thanks over yourself and David.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?