The phone call

[adam]

Nevill's blood wasn't found in the bedroom, just the casings (one on the stairs), his blood was found on the staircase wall.

That is correct.

There was a lot of blood on the main bedroom carpet. I doubt that it was all checked. Some of it could have been Nevill's. But most of it Sheila's & June's, for obvious reasons.

Nevill was already on the move to the bedroom door when receiving his 4 shots. There was no time for the torso shots to drip through his pyjamas onto the floor. The mouth shots would have intially started bleeding inside his mouth.

The weapon was a rifle for shooting rabbits. So I do not agree with David that Bamber is innocent because there may not have been any of Nevill's blood in tne bedroom.

[adam]

We all know Jeremy Bamber killed his family, but let’s just suppose it wasn’t him

Why on Earth would Nevill have left Sheila “going crazy with a gun” alone upstairs where his wife and grandchildren were— in grave danger?

Sheila was unsteady as it was, and that rifle was not much shorter than her, which means it would’ve been easy for Nevil being strong, fit, 6”4” to grab hold of that long rifle and take it off her

So all this rubbish that Nevill may have left his wife & grandchildren to be shot dead, to phone his useless son who lived three miles away and would’ve been sleeping, to come and “rescue” him is utter madness

Going onto alibis...Jeremy does unwittingly trip himself up so often...

Here’s one of his letters to a “fan”, Trudie, mentioning the word “alibi”...that word is mentioned by those who are guilty — innocent people never say they have an alibi

Both the prosecution and defence say Nevill would have only called Jeremy and the police after the opening bedroom shots.

Supporters on forums have different views. Saying he called while Sheila was downstairs & did not notice her go upstairs. Or Sheila had locked herself into the bathroom, or held Nevill at gun point and ordered him to phone Jeremy.

The CT have never been specific on when the call was made. Or when Chelmsford police had been called.

[adam]

You still haven’t grasped the facts

It isn’t me who’s proving I’m right: I’m quoting the pathologist who proved Nevill was first shot in the bedroom. And unlike you and me, he’d know. As did the forensic team and ballistic experts.

To explain is to you in simple terms, when pathologists carry out autopsies they can determine when/how a person was killed

The pathologist knew for certain that the first four shots Nevill received didn’t kill him. One reason for that was his blood circulation was still working (dead people have no circulation), so therefore, Nevill’s blood in the bedroom that trailed down to the kitchen where he eventually died after being shot in the head, meant he must have first been shot in the bedroom — and the bullet casings were found there too

It’s very simple


As for the telephone, usually the ivory phone was in the master bedroom, but as the kitchen phone had been taken away for repairs (which I suspect was engineered by JB), the ivory phone was put into the kitchen as that’s where the family congregated. The usual kitchen phone was collected for repairs just a day or so prior to Jeremy killing his family, so one can assume Nevill himself transferred the bedroom phone into the kitchen as a temporary measure; but it’s irrelevant when it was put there — so I’m not sure why you’re asking

I strongly suspect, though, that Jeremy damaged the kitchen phone to make sure Nevill would bring down the ivory phone — rendering both Nevill and June helpless in dialling 999 if they heard noises downstairs when he climbed through the window

He put a lot of planning into those murders

He even asked Sheila just weeks before when she’d be bringing the twins down to stay: something he’d never, ever asked before in his life

It was all premeditated

I do not believe Bamber engineered the faulty telephones beforehand. He was not that merticulous. Besides which, on the night the kitchen and bedroom phones were in working order.

The bedroom phone may have been in the bedroom on the night. He just had to take the kitchen phone off the hook, to disable all phones. He took the bedroom phone downstairs, as Nevill was there.

The 'last number dialled' phone not being in use, would have been a blow to Bamber. He would have used that to phone his cottage.

[adam]

66.

The only telephone with a memory recall feature was the cordless telephone but this had been faulty and was collected for repair on the morning of 5 August 1985.

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Don't know if Bamber was aware of this. If not, it would have kept his plan on track. He could have moved Nevill a few yards from his bed, then left the memory recall phone next to Nevill, on the floor. The last number dialled being to Jeremy.

If he was aware, he may have decided to go ahead anyway. Knowing he only had a short window of opportunity.

[G-Unit]

Snip/
It wasn’t Vanezis’ job to determine where Nevill was moments prior to the shootings; his job was to prove how Nevill died

I wondered why you brought him into the discussion. His evidence showed that Nevill couldn't have used the phone after the first four shots into him, but as you now accept, that has no bearing on my suggestion; which is that Nevill could have used the phone before anyone was shot.

[G-Unit]

Both the prosecution and defence say Nevill would have only called Jeremy and the police after the opening bedroom shots.

How did they know that?

[adam]

How did they know that?

They don't. They were going on what Nevill said, the call only lasting around 4 seconds & the line then going dead.

They both believe it is not credible that the call was made prior to shots being fired.

[G-Unit]

They don't. They were going on what Nevill said, the call only lasting around 4 seconds & the line then going dead.

They both believe it is not credible that the call was made prior to shots being fired.

There were plenty of assumptions in this case then. How Nevill behaved depends on what he thought was happening. If he thought Sheila was likely to harm herself he would behave differently than if he thought she was going to harm others.

[mrswah]

Why are you being pedantic?

Jeremy was convicted of the murders after being found guilty, and has lost all appeals since then, which means there is no doubt whatsoever that he’s guilty

No, it doesn't!  It means the jury and the appeal judges believed him to be guilty.

[Holly Goodhead]

You have two eyes? You have seen that blood roll from her mouth horizontally? You can see that it has rolled back down her face from her nose and into her eye. Now please tell me how this can occur if her head is 'propped up'? Ismail is only talking about when she was shot and he states that someone moved her 'afterwards' - however, from the blood on her face, it could NOT have been the police. Your own sited evidence has tied you in knots and I think you realise that - Ismail made no indication that the police moved Sheila and what he said, isn't supporting your argument.

It is not possible to determine from the soc images under what circumstances the blood on SC's face appeared. 

One possibility is that blood pooled internally and when SC was pulled by her feet her head propped up against the bedside cabinet dropped to the floor causing blood to leak from orifices as depicted on soc images. 

Of course Martyn Ismail made no reference to police officers moving SC at soc as he would expect if this happened the police to fess up. Since they did not fess up it would not even feature on his radar.

As  Chief Sup Mick Gradwell said in the following, at 8 mins in, if EP damaged the scene and then staged it to make it look like it did originally and haven't disclosed it is "really, really serious"

https://youtu.be/yPRd912xv9M

[Holly Goodhead]

'Purge'? Are you SERIOUS? It does indeed emit from orifices after death, 3 - 5 days later! There is n o way that blood can defy gravity as you describe. Given that 'purge' is the result of purification, the idea that this happens a few hours after death is just silly. I thought you had studied this stuff? Blood is leaving from Sheila's mouth but swapping blood for surge still leaves you with the FACT that liquid cannot defy the laws of gravity and for her head to be propped up, it would have ran DOWN her face, not up.

Decomposition is not a one size fits all, many factors influence it, and you do not know what effect, if any, SC's pharmacology had on it.

Martyn Ismail is clear that upon infliction of the second gsw SC's head fell back against the bedside cabinet.  At circa 7.30 pm A/PS Woodcock also observed SC's head propped up against the bedside cabinet.  At circa 10.30 pm soc images show her head flat to the floor.  What happened between 7.30 pm to 10.30 pm?  It certainly wasn't JB who staged soc as he was outside with EP. 

MI's evidence explains why those first at soc who also left early report seeing one gsw ie when her head was propped up against the bedside cabinet it concealed the upper gsw.  Those who arrived and/or left later report seeing two gsw's because when she was pulled by her feet and her head fell flat to the floor the upper gsw was revealed.

It also explains that the large blood stain on the carpet under the bible in the soc image doesn't correspond with the blood staining under SC's armpit.  Whereas it would if her head was propped up against the bedside cabinet.  Same for the blood staining on the bible ie the large stain should correspond with the large stain on the carpet which no doubt it did before it was moved around by EP. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Have you never considered the same regarding your own “theories”?

?

Which of my theories contradict expert opinion?

Definition of expert being high level qualifications ie degree or equivalent in subject relevant to expertise.

[Holly Goodhead]

Apologies — you’re right

Nevill’s blood was indeed on the stairwell, which again proves he was walking downstairs before he was finally killed

It deeply suggests that that when Jeremy snuck in through the window the Bamber’s woke up, probably due to Crispy barking (hence Jeremys deep hatred for the “yapping” dog) and Nevill had probably already got out of bed to investigate and was shot at the top of the staircase

It all makes sense now

NB's blood group was found on a piece of wallpaper in the hall.

None of NB's blood was found in the bedroom.  Two tiny stains on the landing were identified as 'A' group; NB's group was 'O'.

The facial wounds produced heavy blood loss internally and externally.  Had NB sustained any gsw's in the bedroom blood would have presented in the bedroom and landing but it doesn't because he was shot on the landing and blood started to drip on the carpet when he reached the main staircase.

[Holly Goodhead]

The general consensus, is that on the balance of probabilities it was extremely unlikely that Nevill would have called his wastrel son for help instead of simply disarming Sheila or even calling the police. In fact Jeremy would be the last person he would call for help considering he had recently told Barbara Wilson he feared him.
The likelihood becomes even less if you presume that no shots have been fired yet.

The idea of the phone call was to give Jeremy an alibi, and it totally backfired on him.

It is well documented by NB's niece, Jackie Woods, and CC that the Bamber's were very private people who never discussed family matters outside the family.  This begs the question why NB would sit around gossiping with his secretary who at the time was young enough to be his daughter.

[Holly Goodhead]

 I don’t  need to prove Nevill wasn’t making any phone calls — the pathologist proved that 😌

No he didn't given by his own admission he did not know the sequence of shootings.

To date a reconstruction hasn't taken place.  When it does imo it will show NB was shot on the landing stairs meaning he could have made the call to JB before he was shot.