Could Sheila Caffell have defeated Nevill Bamber?

[Holly Goodhead]

When Holly has rebutted each one of these facts with precise forensic evaluation and explanation then I will start to take her (and others) seriously.  Until then...

It's all been done and dusted.  It's much the same as many believe the dog alerts are significant in the McCann case.

If you're interested check it out yourself.  Google something like gunshot wounds always generate back spatter and see what conclusions you come to.

I'll give you one concrete example re fingerprints on the rifle. Firearms are coated in a substance referred to as 'bluing' which makes it difficult to recover fingerprints from.  I was told this in an email (shared with Myster) from arguably the world's foremost fingerprint expert.

Obviously JB handled the rifle extensively hence one of his fingerprints was found on it but a fingerprint was also found from SC:

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

I guess the silencer was coated with bluing too hence it did not generate any fingerprints despite the relatives handling ungloved.

[Caroline]

Don’t forget, Jeremy told Julie he planned to wear his wetsuit if he carried out the killings. She thought he was joking, but he wasn’t.

He always kept the wetsuit at his house, so the fact it was mysteriously at WHF, and his flippers/snorkel etc were at Goldhanger absolutely stinks

I haven't seen Julie mention the wetsuit other than in the diary she used for notes which was simply the word 'wetsuit?'. Looks to me like she was asked about it in one of her interviews - the only comments I recall her making on the subject was to say it was normally kept at Jeremy's house.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

It's all been done and dusted.  It's much the same as many believe the dog alerts are significant in the McCann case.

If you're interested check it out yourself.  Google something like gunshot wounds always generate back spatter and see what conclusions you come to.

I'll give you one concrete example re fingerprints on the rifle. Firearms are coated in a substance referred to as 'bluing' which makes it difficult to recover fingerprints from.  I was told this in an email (shared with Myster) from arguably the world's foremost fingerprint expert.

Obviously JB handled the rifle extensively hence one of his fingerprints was found on it but a fingerprint was also found from SC:

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

I guess the silencer was coated with bluing too hence it did not generate any fingerprints despite the relatives handling ungloved.

Yes, it was all done and dusted in 1986 when Jeremy Bamber was convicted of mass murder

There’s no need to Google “back spatter “ — proof of that was Sheila's back spatter in the silencer.  I think, though I’m not sure, one of the twins had back spatter in the silencer too: I shall check

As for fingerprints on the gun: if they’re hard to retrieve due to ‘bluing’ why did forensics bother looking for them, and how did they find one of Sheila’s and Jeremy’s on there?

It’s obvious that Jeremy pressed Sheila’s finger firmly against the gun in order to frame her: the jury realised that.  They also realised how very strange it was that only one of her prints were on there...

Jeremy had also covered himself by claiming he’d handled the gun just hours earlier...he thought some things through during his pre-planning, but not all. He obviously wiped/washed that gun clean prior to murdering Sheila, hence why as you rightly say — there was only one of his fingerprints on it when it should have been covered in them.

I’m slightly confused here: you’re contradicting yourself, Holly. On the one hand you’re saying ‘bluing’ prevents fingerprints from staying on the gun, then you say that as Jeremy had handled it that’s why one of his was found on the gun...

The silencer had no fingerprints on it because the family handled it carefully so as not to destroy and evidence. And the reason no prints were found on it was that Jeremy’s gloves would’ve wiped it clean and obviously had none of his on it due to the gloves he wore.

You still haven’t answered the other questions have you...

You haven’t explained why the silencer wasn’t next to Sheila’s body

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I haven't seen Julie mention the wetsuit other than in the diary she used for notes which was simply the word 'wetsuit?'. Looks to me like she was asked about it in one of her interviews - the only comments I recall her making on the subject was to say it was normally kept at Jeremy's house.

I shall find it for you, Caroline

I’ve read so much, and from different official sources, I’ll need to look for it: but during one of his conversations with Julie when he was telling her of the different ways he could kill them all e.g. burn the house down etc...he also mentioned the perpetrator needing protective clothing that left no fibres, such as a wetsuit...

It’s the ideal clothing to commit murder

[Vertigo Swirl]

It's all been done and dusted.  It's much the same as many believe the dog alerts are significant in the McCann case.

If you're interested check it out yourself.  Google something like gunshot wounds always generate back spatter and see what conclusions you come to.

I'll give you one concrete example re fingerprints on the rifle. Firearms are coated in a substance referred to as 'bluing' which makes it difficult to recover fingerprints from.  I was told this in an email (shared with Myster) from arguably the world's foremost fingerprint expert.

Obviously JB handled the rifle extensively hence one of his fingerprints was found on it but a fingerprint was also found from SC:

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

I guess the silencer was coated with bluing too hence it did not generate any fingerprints despite the relatives handling ungloved.

if the evidence pointing to it being Sheila is as tenuous as the dog alerts in the McCann case then no wonder Bamber keeps losing appeal after appeal.  Is that really the best you can do?  Guns don’t yield fingerprints?  Apart from the ones they do of course.  What utter nonsense.

[Holly Goodhead]

if the evidence pointing to it being Sheila is as tenuous as the dog alerts in the McCann case then no wonder Bamber keeps losing appeal after appeal.  Is that really the best you can do?  Guns don’t yield fingerprints?  Apart from the ones they do of course.  What utter nonsense.

If you think you know more than a forensic scientist whose area of expertise is fingerprints so be it. 

For those who wish to learn about the case and understand the facts I can confirm that fingerprints are difficult to recover from some surfaces which includes firearms.  The fact a fingerprint from JB and SC was found suggest both handled the rifle extensively.

There are numerous articles online from reliable sources testifying to the above ie fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms.

[barrier]

If you think you know more than a forensic scientist whose area of expertise is fingerprints so be it. 

For those who wish to learn about the case and understand the facts I can confirm that fingerprints are difficult to recover from some surfaces which includes firearms.  The fact a fingerprint from JB and SC was found suggest both handled the rifle extensively.

There are numerous articles online from reliable sources testifying to the above ie fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms.

What part of the gun was Sheilas finger prints found?

[Vertigo Swirl]

If you think you know more than a forensic scientist whose area of expertise is fingerprints so be it. 

For those who wish to learn about the case and understand the facts I can confirm that fingerprints are difficult to recover from some surfaces which includes firearms.  The fact a fingerprint from JB and SC was found suggest both handled the rifle extensively.

There are numerous articles online from reliable sources testifying to the above ie fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms.

Why does one single fingerprint from SC indicate that she handled thegun extensively and not that her finger was pressed to the gun post death?

[Caroline]

I shall find it for you, Caroline

I’ve read so much, and from different official sources, I’ll need to look for it: but during one of his conversations with Julie when he was telling her of the different ways he could kill them all e.g. burn the house down etc...he also mentioned the perpetrator needing protective clothing that left no fibres, such as a wetsuit...

It’s the ideal clothing to commit murder

Yes please - I must have missed it.

[Caroline]

If you think you know more than a forensic scientist whose area of expertise is fingerprints so be it. 

For those who wish to learn about the case and understand the facts I can confirm that fingerprints are difficult to recover from some surfaces which includes firearms.  The fact a fingerprint from JB and SC was found suggest both handled the rifle extensively.

There are numerous articles online from reliable sources testifying to the above ie fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms.

No it doesn't, Jeremy already accounted for his prints being on the weapon but he could have easily placed Sheila's prints on it.

[Admin]

If you think you know more than a forensic scientist whose area of expertise is fingerprints so be it. 

For those who wish to learn about the case and understand the facts I can confirm that fingerprints are difficult to recover from some surfaces which includes firearms.  The fact a fingerprint from JB and SC was found suggest both handled the rifle extensively.

There are numerous articles online from reliable sources testifying to the above ie fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms.

It appears that a print from Sheila's right ring finger was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. This in itself isn't evidence of anything really as she was staying in the same house as the rifle. For all anyone knows, Jeremy Bamber asked her to hold the rifle hours earlier or placed the print from her finger there after her death.

I don't think the identification of a single print on a murder weapon found in such circumstances suggests much if anything given that Sheila hated guns. I think your claim that this suggests extensive use is just a little far fetched.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

If you think you know more than a forensic scientist whose area of expertise is fingerprints so be it. 

For those who wish to learn about the case and understand the facts I can confirm that fingerprints are difficult to recover from some surfaces which includes firearms.  The fact a fingerprint from JB and SC was found suggest both handled the rifle extensively.

There are numerous articles online from reliable sources testifying to the above ie fingerprints are difficult to recover from firearms.

How would just one fingerprint suggest Sheila handled the gun “extensively”?

If anything, I’d say that suggests Jeremy Bamber pressed her finger against it...

It seems that the gun wasn’t “blued” either: had it been, the forensics would have said that was why there so few prints on it

And it also seems that Jeremy knew that too, which is another reason he wore gloves — and he also told Julie he was worried because “the hitman” — who Jeremy made out he’d hired — had lost a glove in the struggle with Nevill. He obviously retrieved it after killing Nevill, but it worried him nonetheless...

It’s also astonishing that NO blood or back spatter was inside the barrel, yet you claim the silencer wasn’t used.

But blood was deep inside the silencer. You know, the silencer that you suggest Sheila took downstairs after semi-paralysing herself with the first shot; looked for a carrier bag; washed the silencer under the tap; wrapped it in the carrier bag; walked across blood, broken glass and sugar; headed to the cupboard; bent down; tucked it away out of sight at the back of the cupboard; walked back upstairs; laid down near to June rather than the twins; decided to read a verse of the Bible as she lay with her head at an awkward angle and as her neck ballooned with blood; and then shot herself a second time.

And all that without one single drop of her blood anywhere in the house...

[John]

To get back to the thread title for a moment, I personally cannot see any circumstances in which Sheila could have overcome Nevill Bamber even after the initial gunshots. Nevill could have disabled Sheila with one arm and a single strategic blow. Whoever fought with Nevill over the kitchen table was a strong individual and not a petite young woman imo.

[ISpyWithMyEye]

I've seen no evidence of the whereabouts of his wetsuit.

G-Unit, now you’ve been shown evidence that Jeremy Bamber left his wetsuit in his LOCKED bedroom at WHF after killing all his family, you’ve gone strangely quiet. I notice you do that when irrefutable evidence is shown...

The police found his wetsuit in his old bedroom at WHF weeks later, when they realised he was the murderer

Julie told the police that Jeremy always kept his wetsuit at Head Street, and proof of that is his flippers and snorkel were at Head Street. Why would he separate them? There’s simply no reason to. He took his wetsuit to WHF because he knew he’d easily be able to wash away any blood that may have backfired onto him. He didn’t take his flippers & snorkel as they’d have been a hindrance

You should ask yourself why he’d take his wetsuit to WHF for no reason whatsoever.

I did read (I’m trying to find it) that he mentioned to Julie after dismissing burning WHF down, that shooting them all would be “good”. He mentioned the “hitman” would need to wear something like a wetsuit so his clothes weren’t contaminated.

It’s very telling that just TWO days after Jeremy was buckling at the knees & stricken with grief at his parents’ and Sheila’s funeral, and the day before the twins funeral, he made a marvellous recovery and took up the invitation to go windsurfing at Pevensey Bay with Julie and her friends, the Bishops — whose family lived down there

They left Head Street at 10:30am travelling in two cars

Lo and behold, when they all got to the beach Jeremy exclaimed “I’ve forgotten my wetsuit!”

That’s akin to walking to the ski slopes, standing by the lift, then saying “Whoops, I’ve forgotten my skis!”

In the event, Andy Bishop was able to lend him one of his which he kept at his parents’ home in Pevensey...

Of course, the REAL reason Jeremy couldn’t conjure up a wetsuit at Goldhanger was that he knew it was at WHF where he’d left it after he’d murdered everyone, and could hardly be seen going into the farmhouse to pick it up as it would have looked so suspicious — especially as Julie knew he always kept it at Goldhanger.

[G-Unit]

G-Unit, now you’ve been shown evidence that Jeremy Bamber left his wetsuit in his LOCKED bedroom at WHF after killing all his family, you’ve gone strangely quiet. I notice you do that when irrefutable evidence is shown...

I've seen no such evidence, sorry. I've been repeatedly told it exists but it hasn't been produced afaik.